KV8 + Su85 combo

Played a 4 v 4 where we Germans held 1 of the fuel points while the Russians held the other one.

We completely dominated the early and part of the mid game and probably the only mistake we made was not focus all our attention on the remaining fuel. So long story short this let them spam su85's (being only 320mp/115 fuel makes it even easier). Of course on a map like city 17 su85's are very difficult to flank allowing him to camp behind his lines and snipe any armor.

My ally and I attempted to coordinate and flank the 85's with a couple of panthers/shrek squads but he had conscripts and guards to AT/button up while the shrek squads managed to get off just one shot before he did the usual warp speed reverse straight out and finshed off the at grenaded panthers.

But still we managed to hold them off till 99 victory points (we were at 400+). Then came the KV8's .... these things are ABSOLUTELY HELL. They roast infantry incl retreating ones with an efficiency 10X greater than the German FHT and your lucky to even get a panzerfaust off. 2 X KV8's meant that every single AT gun and shrek squad were either roasting or retreating.

Well you say KV8's are supposed to be taken out by tanks ? Sure ... only problem is they have such thick armor that all he has to do is run away and the su85's snipe your armor and its back to square one.

One of us even built a PaK43 - but it lived for a grand total of 1 min. One cheap il2 bombing strike later its history. (these things really need a durability buff but thats a different topic)


I have a question for the devs .... how the hell are Germans expected to counter the KV8 + SU85 combo when it melts everything non armor and su85's will snipe any German armor coming. Trying to use Shrek squads or paks will result in veterancy gain for the kv8 while the su85 will just reverse away.

This is a ridiclously op combo (at least Russians have options like guards button and have no German unit which can single handedly decimate infantry squads without support)

KV8 needs to have its flame damage on par with the FHT at least or reduce its ridiculous armor.

Elephant

Elephant

Doctrinal and ultra expensive.... costs 260 fuel and requires 5 CP. Comes way too late in the game to make a difference not to mention one t34 ram and its history.

And it tends to miss a lot ....

4v4

Imho we will be happy if there will be a day when 1v1 and later 2v2 is balanced, 4v4 is nearly impossible to balance.

But on topic: I think KV8 is fine, the real problem is SU-85 with support or even without it (warp speed back to safety). As for now, almost every game I play with my friend (mostly 2v2 but also 3v3) is that one of use make Pak43s (2 is minimum covering each other) with leFH howi and MG bunkers (its boring Simcity play TBH but I dunno the other way to win against decent RU players) and the other goes for Elephant for "mobility".

Imho we will be happy if there will be a day when 1v1 and later 2v2 is balanced, 4v4 is nearly impossible to balance.

But on topic: I think KV8 is fine, the real problem is SU-85 with support or even without it (warp speed back to safety). As for now, almost every game I play with my friend (mostly 2v2 but also 3v3) is that one of use make Pak43s (2 is minimum covering each other) with leFH howi and MG bunkers (its boring Simcity play TBH but I dunno the other way to win against decent RU players) and the other goes for Elephant for "mobility".

problem with pak43 is that a single katyusha barrage/il2 bombing strike will insta decrew it or worse destroy the gun. Its also a magnet for the 120mm mortar snipers. Quite simply I feel PAK43 neds to have much better durability to be effective.

FlaK88 in vCOH was much much better.

I know, PAK43s need huge support in terms of repairs and recrews and It cant survive bombing run (for 240muni its imho fair trade). Not sure but imho if you build medic bunker in range of the Pak, medic will heal the crew. Also you need Ostwind or P4 to help it not to get overwhelmed by infantry. Most important thing is positioning and covering all routes by MGs (MG bunkers), remember Pak can shoot thru anything.
If the enemy is spamming mortars (heavy ones cuz they are balanced right?) and cover them with infantry blob with SU85(or at guns + guards) your only hope is Panzerwerfer (made by yr buddy) but you have to babysit him cuz those heavy martars shells will two shot him (what a joke). Best part is that even from very close range you need extreme luck to kill heavy mortar, its like 90+% chance that one guy will survive barrage and retreat to reinforce.

The Pak wont help you to win the game, however it may help you to survive long enough to call in Elephant(s).

Handily outplayed, better go have a moan on the forums about how imba everything is.

Handily outplayed, better go have a moan on the forums about how imba everything is.

With a name like Gayner, I'd hardly talk about moaning. If you can't contribute anything except trolling stfu and gtfo out of this thread russian fanboy

With a name like Gayner, I'd hardly talk about moaning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States

I can really relate to this. So frustrating! I build 3 paks last time. All died to bombing run.
They where down to around 20 vps.

With a name like Gayner, I'd hardly talk about moaning. If you can't contribute anything except trolling stfu and gtfo out of this thread russian fanboy

And resorting to insulting a surname is just low.

Calling someone a russian fanboy, when you are clearly in favour of the Ostheer is also ridiculous.

And resorting to insulting a surname is just low.

Calling someone a russian fanboy, when you are clearly in favour of the Ostheer is also ridiculous.

Insult because this troll gayner comes on every single thread and posts bs troll posts without any arguments and logic. Just read a history of his posts.

As for "fanboys"

like this statement where you claim "Panzer has similar Anti Infantry abilities as T-34." facepalm !

Bias goes both ways.

Bait with infantry to draw the KV-8 in. 2x StuGs can hang back. If you get the doctrine with spotting scope it's better because he'll doubtless try to fight back with SU-85s and if he pushes forward a little you can roll back and draw him in. Ally should flank at that point with his own tanks.

Then again it depends on how bad you've get it. The second you see an SU-85 on the field it should be your priority to hunt it down.

As for "fanboys"

like this statement where you claim "Panzer has similar Anti Infantry abilities as T-34." facepalm !

Bias goes both ways.

It does, there is no bias in that. Most people are in agreement that something needs to happen with T34. At the moment it's just not viable. However that is a different thread to this and that discussion should be kept in that thread.

You are also completely derailing this thread by throwing insults around at anyone who disagrees with you.

Back to the topic: The KV8 is fine, it's an Anti Infantry Tank, and yes when using Combined Arms is rather effective however the counters exist. Remove his SU-85's and his KV8 is a sitting duck.

But then again, this is 4v4 we are talking about. It's a total spam fest.

The KV-8 is fine?

Haha.

Hahaha.

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

Oh God, that's rich. You can tell me it's fine when a KV-8 chases you back to your base, kills all your squads, kills your buildings, and then runs away the second a tank comes out because it has armor so thick it can never die.

The KV-8 is literally the most overpowered thing in this game. I play more Soviets than Germans and even I know this. There is nothing that is as overpowered as that tank. Thick armor, instant kill on infantry no matter if they retreat or not. If you were to use a Tiger to wail on its side armor until it died, it would take you 50 seconds to kill it.

There is nothing more overpowered in this game than that tank. It's stupidly powerful. If you even so much as get into its range for 1/10 of a second you might as well lift your hands off the keyboard because it's too late for your squad.

I'm OK with an anti-infantry tank. I'm not OK with a tank which has a flamethrower so powerful it's like 5 Pioneers focusing a single squad at once. With durability so potent it's laughable it even made it past QA.

The KV-8 is fine?

Haha.

Hahaha.

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHA

Oh God, that's rich. You can tell me it's fine when a KV-8 chases you back to your base, kills all your squads, kills your buildings, and then runs away the second a tank comes out because it has armor so thick it can never die.

The KV-8 is literally the most overpowered thing in this game. I play more Soviets than Germans and even I know this. There is nothing that is as overpowered as that tank. Thick armor, instant kill on infantry no matter if they retreat or not. If you were to use a Tiger to wail on its side armor until it died, it would take you 50 seconds to kill it.

There is nothing more overpowered in this game than that tank. It's stupidly powerful. If you even so much as get into its range for 1/10 of a second you might as well lift your hands off the keyboard because it's too late for your squad.

I'm OK with an anti-infantry tank. I'm not OK with a tank which has a flamethrower so powerful it's like 5 Pioneers focusing a single squad at once. With durability so potent it's laughable it even made it past QA.

If you don't have a tank by the time he has a KV8. You are doing something wrong or you have lost the game.

And no doctrine that has a KV8 contains guards, so you can severely punish their early game with a Flame HT. As soon as you see shocks, you can go FHT and push them off the map.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say "Have a tank out" I meant to say "Have a tank back" as in back at base. If you have any units out in the field you have to fully relinquish your map control to deal with a KV-8.

It's not even that expensive. 135 fuel. For what it does, that's cheap.

Furthermore, Guards aren't the only form of AT. They're great supplementals but not necessary for Soviet AT to work.

If you don't have a tank by the time he has a KV8. You are doing something wrong or you have lost the game.

And no doctrine that has a KV8 contains guards, so you can severely punish their early game with a Flame HT. As soon as you see shocks, you can go FHT and push them off the map.

Comparing a KV8 to the severely nerfed FHT ? Did u know all u have to do is oorah with 2 X conscript squads AT gren it and its a dead FHT with 120 wasted munitions.

Unfortunately for a KV8 you need 2 X panthers to kill it effectively and for sure he has AT support in the form of the God mode su85's

FHT takes 10 X times longer to kill soviet infantry squads compared to instant KV8 hell.

But you won't know because you have never been on the recieving end of the the KV8 + SU85 spam.

SU85 is 115 fuel and KV8 is 135 ... both together are still cheaper than an Elephant or Tiger.

Remove his SU-85's and his KV8 is a sitting duck.

.

O'Rly ? With what ? Panzer 4's/Panthers ? Sure ...

Any non noob player usually keeps a conscript squad at the rear to AT gren any flanking panthers or panzer 4's and Su85 warp speed reverses away out of danger ....

Blitz ? Sure good luck getting an unvetted panther to vet 1 when it sucks mega time against infantry.

Shrek squads ... as usual warp speed reverse and send in maxims/kv8's

PAK ... kv8 will roast it for lunch.

Its a very very very difficult to beat this combo. "combined arms" for Germans have counters unlike this crap.

The only viable counter is elephant but they are horrendously late , horrendously expensive , even more horrendously slow and are a magnet for ramming.