DBP Commander Rework

If you show me that there are worse Soviet commanders than NKVD I will cut my arm.

That's not the point. The point is that, assume Shocks and Guards get buffed. You now have 3 competitive commanders:
- Shock rifle Frontline
- Guards Motor Coordination
- Soviet Reserve Army

Those three are probably the best Soviet commanders they are. Some of them are not in a good spot due to Penals being OP and Shocks/Guards being bad. However, that's going to change.

Yeah. You can buff NKVD to make it a bit better. However, nobody is ever going to build NKVD over the 3 commanders above. Instead, you guys need to figure out 2 additional doctrines to add to the meta that will be:
- On par with the above doctrines (to be competitive)
- Have an interesting theme behind them that can put CoH1 commander design to shame (i.e., there's something interesting about the commander apart from the name)
- Are not too gimmicky (i.e., pick a commander you would always want to keep in your roster)
- Potentially add a new way to play the faction
- Be interactive and add pleasure to the player when using it (when it's not just about abusing/winning)

NKVD fails at everything at once:
- Given its abilities (that we can't change), it will NEVER be on par with any of the above commanders. Those abilities scale bad, and the doctrine gives you no alternatives.
- There is nothing interesting about the commander. Radio decryption and Propaganda? Sure. Rapid Conscription? Reserve Infantry does this better. Airplanes? WUT; how do those fit in?!?
- There's not much clicking going on in the commander to keep it interesting. Also, none of the abilities have a logical progression.

Finally, I don't see NKVD covering a playstyle that has not already been oversaturated and overshadowed by other commanders:
- Fear to the enemies aspect? Terror, anti-infantry
- Soviet human waves? Reserve army
- Intel gathering? Partisan commander

Please vote for Recon Support.
Unlike other Commanders which a few buffs or changes could make them playable or even strong, Recon needs a total rework, please think of the Greyhounds.

So... why not change it so its more than just three to five to whatever commanders being competitive? Why not all of them some way? Why not change the Meta.

Tbh i have no idea why we are talking still.

There was an option, where you can put your Commander in it. So use it and write NKVD.

I talking still, coz you argument about NKVD was strange in logic side.

buff rifle company keep the falme throwers to rear echelon adn put vet 1 riflemen PLEASE

I have a suggestion for the storm commander (if it is one of the chosen to be updated), it would make it based on pure player skill to use, here:
2CP – Ambush Camouflage
3CP – Halftrack Riegel 43 Anti-Tank mine
4CP - Stuka JU-87 D Anti-Infantry Strafe (Make it do less supression but more damage to infantry and buildings)
4CP - Air-Dropped Medical Supplies (heal and give 20% less received accuracy during 30sec)
13CP – Tiger Tank

This commander would be best used in those situations where you really want to defend vp's, strategic positions and/or for ambushes, best suited for mid/late game.

Really give it a thought and say what do you think? Wouldnt it be reliable if you know how to position your troops and mines and have a good timing for the strafe?

I have a couple of ideas for USF commander revamps that I have posted in the past.

Combine Recon Co. Forward Observers with Rifle Co. Riflemen Flares into one ability and put it into both commanders. Also for Recon Support give the Greyhound the Stuart Gun stats (maybe lower ROF) and replace the god-awful Recon Drop with a glider that spawns a standard Paratrooper squad and allows building of additional Paratroopers and reinforcing.

Combine Mechanized Company Refit ability with Armor Co. Crew Thompson SMG upgrade into one ability and include it in both commanders.

You could improve NKVD by changing rapid conscription for the partisan map hack ability, would be pretty strong then and certainly get good use from people who want that ability but don't want to call partisans.

I like most of the Soviet commanders, they offer many different strategical styles and unit compositions.

One of best and favorites for me is Soviet shock army, the pressure you can put on OKW with ppsh spam and some shocks while bombing trucks with 120mm followed up with howie and 34/76 rush is quite brutal.

NKVD fails at everything at once:
- Given its abilities (that we can't change), it will NEVER be on par with any of the above commanders. Those abilities scale bad, and the doctrine gives you no alternatives.
- There is nothing interesting about the commander. Radio decryption and Propaganda? Sure. Rapid Conscription? Reserve Infantry does this better. Airplanes? WUT; how do those fit in?!?
- There's not much clicking going on in the commander to keep it interesting. Also, none of the abilities have a logical progression.

Finally, I don't see NKVD covering a playstyle that has not already been oversaturated and overshadowed by other commanders:
- Fear to the enemies aspect? Terror, anti-infantry
- Soviet human waves? Reserve army
- Intel gathering? Partisan commander

The biggest fail of NKVD is all abilities require ammos. When you have lots of mp and fuel but are running low at ammo, they become particularly useless. The abilities also force player to use one at a time instead of combining, further weakening its presence in the battle.

Why Airborne is not an Option?
This commander is a design failure.
4 abilities that need MP, Paratroopers come at 3 CPS, when you already have 3 riflemans and 1 lietnament or caption, MGs/ATs and maybe ,if you choose this commander, a pathfinder squad, at this point a paratrooper squad will only bleed you.
Oh and the last ability, the most random 240 ammo cost ever, p47 can destroy tank or miss almost every rocket.

You can't honestly make me believe that Vanguard Operation for the British is one of the least played Commanders, it's one of the best, if not the best commander the British have, alongside Special Weapons, Mobile Assault, and then further down the road Advanced Emplacements and Royal Engineers, the others royally suck.

- Given its abilities (that we can't change), it will NEVER be on par with any of the above commanders.

No swapping abilities BLYAT (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

What can be changed?

Please vote for Recon Support.
Unlike other Commanders which a few buffs or changes could make them playable or even strong, Recon needs a total rework, please think of the Greyhounds.

I'll second that. Too many abilities in the commander are either inefficient or just plain useless.

1 CP- Forward Observers

This ability needs to be relaxed so that just being in cover or garrisoned gives the sight bonus to Riflemen, and it needs to persist even in combat.

2 CP- I&R Pathfinders

These guys should cost a little less, given they're support with no M1C Garand sniper rifles. And they (along with their Airborne counterparts) should be able to spawn in ambient buildings to help set up Paratrooper ambushes/assaults.

3 CP- M8 Greyhound

The Revamp mod that the patch team developed pretty much nailed the M8 on what it should be. A beast of an anti-infantry machine, it should have it's .50cal enabled and the Armored Skirts on by default. I'm split on whether it should hit at 3 or 4 CP though.

4 CP- Recon Sweep

This one is useful, but redundant in a faction that already has a better sweep by default on the Major, and more readily available recon through the Observation-equipped Rifles and the Pathfinders.

Replace it with individual Support Paratrooper squads at 2 CP to promote use of I&R Pathfinders. They can keep the random weapon spawn gimmick, but make them fully equipped rather than partially.

7 CP- Airdropped Combat Group

Who in the world thought this was a good idea? It's mindbogglingly unreachable. Change it to something similar to the "Supply Drops" ability from the original CoH (though trading the mortar for an AT gun), making it cost less MP and more munitions, and suddenly you have a viable way of creating instant problems for the enemy behind enemy lines.

I'll second that. Too many abilities in the commander are either inefficient or just plain useless.

1 CP- Forward Observers

This ability needs to be relaxed so that just being in cover or garrisoned gives the sight bonus to Riflemen, and it needs to persist even in combat.

2 CP- I&R Pathfinders

These guys should cost a little less, given they're support with no M1C Garand sniper rifles. And they (along with their Airborne counterparts) should be able to spawn in ambient buildings to help set up Paratrooper ambushes/assaults.

3 CP- M8 Greyhound

The Revamp mod that the patch team developed pretty much nailed the M8 on what it should be. A beast of an anti-infantry machine, it should have it's .50cal enabled and the Armored Skirts on by default. I'm split on whether it should hit at 3 or 4 CP though.

4 CP- Recon Sweep

This one is useful, but redundant in a faction that already has a better sweep by default on the Major, and more readily available recon through the Observation-equipped Rifles and the Pathfinders.

Replace it with individual Support Paratrooper squads at 2 CP to promote use of I&R Pathfinders. They can keep the random weapon spawn gimmick, but make them fully equipped rather than partially.

7 CP- Airdropped Combat Group

Who in the world thought this was a good idea? It's mindbogglingly unreachable. Change it to something similar to the "Supply Drops" ability from the original CoH (though trading the mortar for an AT gun), making it cost less MP and more munitions, and suddenly you have a viable way of creating instant problems for the enemy behind enemy lines.

I agree with most of your points, specially the mod team nailing the Greyhound as a full on AI vehicle, 4 CP I think it would be balanced, 3 CP Might be a little too stronk.
As for the last ability I actually wanted some sort of Fuel into Manpower ability, or Recon getting some sort of Air Support... Just give them regular Airborne Infantry too.

Here you can see the 10 commanders

Here you can see the 10 commanders

According to this, it's Scavenge instead of Luftwaffe, Storm instead of Osttruppen, Terror instead of Guard Rifle Combined Arms, and Tactical Support instead of Royal Engineers.

I don't think this graphic is accurate...

According to this, it's Scavenge instead of Luftwaffe, Storm instead of Osttruppen, Terror instead of Guard Rifle Combined Arms, and Tactical Support instead of Royal Engineers.

I don't think this graphic is accurate...

According to this, Osther won't be retouched at all because these 2 commies are the same (almost) and soviets will be stuck with shitty guards and good shocks. Loops promising.


But why scavenge needs any changes

According to this, it's Scavenge instead of Luftwaffe, Storm instead of Osttruppen, Terror instead of Guard Rifle Combined Arms, and Tactical Support instead of Royal Engineers.

I don't think this graphic is accurate...

hmmm

as you maybe can see: I don't focus on the rework from the commanders

Had other things to do.

I will recheck this^^

According to this, Osther won't be retouched at all because these 2 commies are the same (almost) and soviets will be stuck with shitty guards and good shocks. Loops promising.


But why scavenge needs any changes

According to this, it's Scavenge instead of Luftwaffe, Storm instead of Osttruppen, Terror instead of Guard Rifle Combined Arms, and Tactical Support instead of Royal Engineers.

I don't think this graphic is accurate...

Yes the picture is wrong LUL.

There you go:

* (USF) Recon Support Company
* (USF) Mechanized Company
* (SOVIET) Tank Hunter Tactics
* (SOVIET) Guard Rifle Combined Arms Tactics
* (BRITISH) Royal Engineer Regiment
* (BRITISH) Commando Regiment
* (OKW) Feuersturm Doctrine
* (OKW) Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine
* (WEHRMACHT) Jaeger Light Infantry
* (WEHRMACHT) Osttruppen Doctrine

I'm so glad you posted that, I've been trying to find that list for awhile.
When I saw the Scavenge Doctrine pictured I was worried it was going to be changed needlessly.