it got hp buff
Wow, and I just thought that counter-attack cannot be even more useless
December Balance Preview
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Posts: 4474
Posts: 2066
T34/85s have 800HP, which is equal to a panther in terms of HP. It outclasses any p4 variant simply because of that HP, also being cheaper than the OKW p4. Yes the OKW p4 has better armor, the 85 also has better pen, ontop of the better AI from the coaxial and hull mgs.
Agreed. Still, I don't find them overperforming. Do you?
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Agreed. Still, I don't find them overperforming. Do you?
In comparison to the p4, yes. IIRC its 135 fuel? maybe 130, where the OKW p4 will soon be 140, but is generally worse because of the lower HP. Why do you agree with my points that state its overperforming for its price but then say it isn't overperforming?
Posts: 122
In comparison to the p4, yes. IIRC its 135 fuel? maybe 130, where the OKW p4 will soon be 140, but is generally worse because of the lower HP. Why do you agree with my points that state its overperforming for its price but then say it isn't overperforming?
The fuel difference is too small to matter: 10 fuel there vs 20 MP. You can argue that the smaller HP pool is offset by the extra frontal armor. The T34 85 production isn't as problematic as T34 76 because you have to lock in the commander which doesn't drop fuel. The balance doesn't matter if it is 5% more efficient than P4, small differences like that just don't matter in team games. Perhaps the tank could get nerfs for pop-cap or production-time to make it less spammy without affecting the combat stats.
The T85 should be a better tank just because it is locked behind the doctrine and T4. The tank has to have advantages over stock tanks. It is also the "elite" tank of Soviets, where you get better tanks from T4 from germans.
Posts: 818
In comparison to the p4, yes. IIRC its 135 fuel? maybe 130, where the OKW p4 will soon be 140, but is generally worse because of the lower HP. Why do you agree with my points that state its overperforming for its price but then say it isn't overperforming?
The 85 is currently overshadowed by the 76 for its cost. I more often find myself going for t34/76's as you can get 3 76's for less fuel than 2 85s. You can also produce a 76 2 earlier than an 85 and their mgs are all the same, as well as the AOE profiles. You get 1920 over 1600 hp and 480 compared to 320 damage with about the same reload at 100 compared to 140 pen. Not that they aren't very good, but since they are comparable to other soviet units, i don't think it's appropriate to adjust their costs right now. I also think that the P4 has historically(ingame) not performed great vs armor with its low penetration so its more appropriate to look at the p4 than the 85s.
I think since both p4 variants are getting cheaper and the more cost effective 76 is getting a price increase, its fair to keep them the same. If they are used a ton and prove to be too strong in the near future then more changes can be looked at, but comparing it to 1 unit when there are dozens more it is in parity with doesn't seem appropriate.
Posts: 2742
If they are used a ton and prove to be too strong in the near future then more changes can be looked at
I think it's in the best interest of the game to avoid this type of situation with any change.
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
The fuel difference is too small to matter: 10 fuel there vs 20 MP. You can argue that the smaller HP pool is offset by the extra frontal armor. The T34 85 production isn't as problematic as T34 76 because you have to lock in the commander which doesn't drop fuel. The balance doesn't matter if it is 5% more efficient than P4, small differences like that just don't matter in team games. Perhaps the tank could get nerfs for pop-cap or production-time to make it less spammy without affecting the combat stats.
The T85 should be a better tank just because it is locked behind the doctrine and T4. The tank has to have advantages over stock tanks. It is also the "elite" tank of Soviets, where you get better tanks from T4 from germans.
I said "since it was a team game patch" merely because it was. These fuel differences have a much larger impact in 1v1 mode. I could argue that pfussies shouldn't be nerfed because they're locked behind a doctrine as well.
The 85 is currently overshadowed by the 76 for its cost. I more often find myself going for t34/76's as you can get 3 76's for less fuel than 2 85s. You can also produce a 76 2 earlier than an 85 and their mgs are all the same, as well as the AOE profiles. You get 1920 over 1600 hp and 480 compared to 320 damage with about the same reload at 100 compared to 140 pen. Not that they aren't very good, but since they are comparable to other soviet units, i don't think it's appropriate to adjust their costs right now. I also think that the P4 has historically(ingame) not performed great vs armor with its low penetration so its more appropriate to look at the p4 than the 85s.
I think since both p4 variants are getting cheaper and the more cost effective 76 is getting a price increase, its fair to keep them the same. If they are used a ton and prove to be too strong in the near future then more changes can be looked at, but comparing it to 1 unit when there are dozens more it is in parity with doesn't seem appropriate.
Currently overshadowed by the 76 yes, but I feel that may change with the fuel price up in the new patch. I'm not saying nerf the 85s so long as we buff p4s to be comparable. I could compare the p4 to any other tank and determine which is too cost effective and which are not. The 85s and the easy 8s are just some of the biggest offenders. Looking to future patches for more nerfs/buffs isn't what you should be looking for currently IMO. This game is dying more or less, and any patch might be its last. We all thought patches were done when the FBP was canceled indefinatly. I'd rather try and fix what we can while we can.
Posts: 818
Subjectively to me they seem ok, Objectively its nebulose, I don't think that justifies changes.
Ez8s are good vs P4s and tigers, but not so good vs stugs, jp4s and panthers so same as the line above.
Outside of balance arguments, I don't think they are in the scope and I don't believe they can add them to the scope.
Posts: 284 | Subs: 1
STORM DOCTRINE STILL HAVE ONE FREE SLOT ABILITY !!!!!
Posts: 353
1.7 is release but ...
STORM DOCTRINE STILL HAVE ONE FREE SLOT ABILITY !!!!!
I will waiting until Final patch
Posts: 1660
Locked in t4 now tho
was he talking about DBP ?
Posts: 1220
If this patch is centered around teamgames why is there no T34/85 and easy 8 nerfs? Those units stats are way to good for their price. Same for IL-2 straffes. Certain IL-2 loiters can delete squads.
This is joke right ? e8 is decent tank, good for it cost but not good enough for axis lategame but yeah lets nerf it because earlygane Usf dominance lol i think its ok no one uses that doctrine anyway if u ask me e8 should have range 45 not 40 and costs 150 fuel
Posts: 2243
This is joke right ? e8 is decent tank, good for it cost but not good enough for axis lategame but yeah lets nerf it because earlygane Usf dominance lol i think its ok no one uses that doctrine anyway if u ask me e8 should have range 45 not 40 and costs 150 fuel
E8 is the best medium tank...its abilitys, firepower, fast speed, armor, hp, reload time, strong vs every target, self repair, smoke etc...its nearly too cheap for its performanche.
a horde of 3-4 e8 can easily destroy some targets and can fast retreat and drive around the map to attack at a other spot...
Posts: 1660
This is joke right ? e8 is decent tank, good for it cost but not good enough for axis lategame but yeah lets nerf it because earlygane Usf dominance lol i think its ok no one uses that doctrine anyway if u ask me e8 should have range 45 not 40 and costs 150 fuel
So much autism in this post...
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Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
I have left things as they are for now, but I don't have much more patience after this point.
Posts: 2243
Aaaand Leig Cost further decreased from 300 to 270 ? Total bullshit. Usf howitzer still not touched and now sniping leig costs like mortar with extra smoke and napalm if needed. Okw leigfest is coming back
maybe you look to its new perfomanche..and the range...before you blame the ISG for its cheap price.
And at least...everybody would agree that OKW need smoke... a good player can base lock a OKW enemy with some mgs in the early game on many maps..
Posts: 2066
In comparison to the p4, yes. IIRC its 135 fuel? maybe 130, where the OKW p4 will soon be 140, but is generally worse because of the lower HP. Why do you agree with my points that state its overperforming for its price but then say it isn't overperforming?
Yeah I see what you mean. The problem is, in a team game scenario, I don't find it (T34-85) overperforming. In a 1v1 vacuum, I do find both of them (T34-85 and EZ8) overperforming, especially considering their cost. For example, in a 1v1 I find the OKW p4 to be quite capable, even considering its cost. However, in a team game, I just find it lackluster. I find the Ostheer P4 lackluster in all game modes lol.
The same goes for the T34-76. In a 1v1 and 2v2 I find it pretty uselsess, apart from the occasional ram. In teamgames, they can be quite unbalanced as you spam them so hard that you can just overwhelm anything lol. The same goes for Panthers. Not really worth it in 1v1, but really really good and overwhelming in a 2v2 and up.
Does that clear it up a bit? I mean I agree with you, but also sort of disagree xd.
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Yeah I see what you mean. The problem is, in a team game scenario, I don't find it (T34-85) overperforming. In a 1v1 vacuum, I do find both of them (T34-85 and EZ8) overperforming, especially considering their cost. For example, in a 1v1 I find the OKW p4 to be quite capable, even considering its cost. However, in a team game, I just find it lackluster. I find the Ostheer P4 lackluster in all game modes lol.
The same goes for the T34-76. In a 1v1 and 2v2 I find it pretty uselsess, apart from the occasional ram. In teamgames, they can be quite unbalanced as you spam them so hard that you can just overwhelm anything lol. The same goes for Panthers. Not really worth it in 1v1, but really really good and overwhelming in a 2v2 and up.
Does that clear it up a bit? I mean I agree with you, but also sort of disagree xd.
all good. balancing different modes with the same stats and resources.
Posts: 158 | Subs: 2
Also the ost Panzer IV is better than M4A3 (76) at a lower cost, this makes no sense either.
Buff the M4A3 (76) performance and give it more pen, equally that of the E8.
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