I struggle more than I should vs. soviet medium rush

Now before any OPKW starts, let me just be clear that I am by all intents and purposes a casual player who will be lucky to occationally kiss rank 16 but is unlikely to stay there fore long

Along with USF (whom I only recently started playing) I feel like OKW is probably my weakest faction (used to be 13 now all the way down to 11). This is especially the case against the soviet combination of penals into early t-34 or sherman.

I feel like I am consistently behind whenever the soviet mediums start rolling out and this tends to snowball into a defeat.

The only semi-sucessfull strat I occationally manage to pull of is picking spec ops, skipping schwere and hold on for my dear life untill I can get out the command panther. For this to work I need to have out two rakentens and a luchs that needs to be kept alive until I can get the panther. If I fail in any of these it is basically gg.

Iøve considered trying out the puma for the initial melee with t-34 but I generally feel that this is a risky investment and doubly so when the t-34 has a last ditch ability to ram the shit out of it

I've linked to an example of a replay against an admittedly stronger player.

In this I actually make the mistake of trying for a schwere panzer which ends in complete disaster and again reinforces my belief that there are hadly any viable options other than the spec ops delay schwere hq.

Anyways I would appreciate any feedback you could give me

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  thinel

  No doctrine no bullitin soviet opponent raped me :'(

  by: Joshua85 map: Kholodny Ferma

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Generally speaking do you normally go BG or Mechanized Start? Whether or not you go Mechanized impacts how you want to handle medium rushes as the fuel investment for a Luches can open you up to medium rushes if you get insufficient pressure from your light vehicle. So if you go Luches then the best way to stave off a medium vehicle rush is focus on pushing him off his fuel and maximizing your light vehicle pressure.

If you don't struggle with Penals without a Luches then you can always consider going BG into a PZ4 rush - that way you should always be on equal footing armor-wise. I would note that if he has T85s or Sherman in his loadout that I prefer to go straight into Panther or JP4 as PZ4 doesn't trade as well there.

Edit- Pumas can actually trade pretty well with T34/76s if you make full use of their sight/range - you just have to realize that Luches + Puma means you're going to be waiting a long time for your own medium armor if you don't go Command Panther. That being said Luchs + Puma into Command Panther is pretty solid if you're caught off guard be medium rush.

Now before any OPKW starts, let me just be clear that I am by all intents and purposes a casual player who will be lucky to occationally kiss rank 16 but is unlikely to stay there fore long

Along with USF (whom I only recently started playing) I feel like OKW is probably my weakest faction (used to be 13 now all the way down to 11). This is especially the case against the soviet combination of penals into early t-34 or sherman.

I feel like I am consistently behind whenever the soviet mediums start rolling out and this tends to snowball into a defeat.

The only semi-sucessfull strat I occationally manage to pull of is picking spec ops, skipping schwere and hold on for my dear life untill I can get out the command panther. For this to work I need to have out two rakentens and a luchs that needs to be kept alive until I can get the panther. If I fail in any of these it is basically gg.

Iøve considered trying out the puma for the initial melee with t-34 but I generally feel that this is a risky investment and doubly so when the t-34 has a last ditch ability to ram the shit out of it

I've linked to an example of a replay against an admittedly stronger player.

In this I actually make the mistake of trying for a schwere panzer which ends in complete disaster and again reinforces my belief that there are hadly any viable options other than the spec ops delay schwere hq.

Anyways I would appreciate any feedback you could give me

•  
  

  0

  VS

  Tordenskjold

  thinel

  No doctrine no bullitin soviet opponent raped me :'(

  by: Joshua85 map: Kholodny Ferma

  1

  -

Oh ram.

I would agree with the puma suggestion though. The main thing with pumas against t34 and shermans is to keep them always at max range. They can out see and out range standard tanks which means you can plink away and kite without your target even being able to return fire. And even if they can, a t34 or sherman is worse than a puma in terms of accuracy at max range and moving.

Also keep in mind that a puma can outrun even a ramming t34, and ram cannot close from max range before it overheats.

This strategy works best if your opponent tries to dive with the medium rush and especially if they chase your luchs, which I think is also faster than any t34 or sherman.

Kite those mediums into your rake tens and/or puma. At least more than trying to assault the Soviet mediums with the raketens.

Oh ram.

I would agree with the puma suggestion though. The main thing with pumas against t34 and shermans is to keep them always at max range. They can out see and out range standard tanks which means you can plink away and kite without your target even being able to return fire. And even if they can, a t34 or sherman is worse than a puma in terms of accuracy at max range and moving.

Also keep in mind that a puma can outrun even a ramming t34, and ram cannot close from max range before it overheats.

This strategy works best if your opponent tries to dive with the medium rush and especially if they chase your luchs, which I think is also faster than any t34 or sherman.

Kite those mediums into your rake tens and/or puma. At least more than trying to assault the Soviet mediums with the raketens.

Don't forget about mines and trolling with vetted creeping raks as well. The former is pretty self explanatory but also something that requires a certain feel that can't really be taught except for mine main roads and crossroads or other choke points/likely areas of advance. The latter: you can attempt to destroy damaged tanks or even just troll tanks that are repairing and maybe keep them off the line that much longer by using cloaked raketens (preferrably vet1 for the speed bonus while cloaked) to creep behind enemy lines and take 1 or maybe maybe maybe 2 shots at the tank and then retreat, being sure to have infantry somewhat nearby to protect it on retreat from infantry or tanks. Works even better with multiple raks XD

Generally speaking do you normally go BG or Mechanized Start? Whether or not you go Mechanized impacts how you want to handle medium rushes as the fuel investment for a Luches can open you up to medium rushes if you get insufficient pressure from your light vehicle. So if you go Luches then the best way to stave off a medium vehicle rush is focus on pushing him off his fuel and maximizing your light vehicle pressure.

If you don't struggle with Penals without a Luches then you can always consider going BG into a PZ4 rush - that way you should always be on equal footing armor-wise. I would note that if he has T85s or Sherman in his loadout that I prefer to go straight into Panther or JP4 as PZ4 doesn't trade as well there.

Edit- Pumas can actually trade pretty well with T34/76s if you make full use of their sight/range - you just have to realize that Luches + Puma means you're going to be waiting a long time for your own medium armor if you don't go Command Panther. That being said Luchs + Puma into Command Panther is pretty solid if you're caught off guard be medium rush.

Thanks for the feedback (also thanks to Loop and Francis) for the feedback.

I pretty much always go mechanized into schwere (or rather command panther as explained in my original post) and relying on sturmpio medkits for healing.

What would be the benefit of going BG rather than mechanized? This would leave me stripped of anything other than an ultralight supression platform and an expensive indirect fire unit (I won't even adress the searchlight).

As mentioned I considered the puma, but bear in mind that the price of this is more or less the same as a t-34 (IRRC Puma costs 10 less fuel 20 more mp). This means that I will have to micro insanely much better than my opponent as he can pretty much just brute force straight through any hole in my lines and can keep replacing losses whilst any lost puma marks a significant delay for any medium.

I will certainly consider your feedback and experiment, but for my skill level I still have a feeling that any equally skilled soviet player will punch above his weight vs an OKW player if he's using penals and medium spam (especially if supplementing with the fuel airdrop ability)

I tend to go BG unless I have a really good early game and want to push my advantage with a Luches. It's somewhat map dependent but I like to use a forward but safe BG as a means of map control coupled with a nearby Schwere (which you can get out much sooner going BG). It means you have a safe zone to park your ISG(s) and lock down your fuel and/or a VP. Just make sure you have a Raken nearby to cover against the first tank which probably still will come before yours.

Current Soviet meta doesn't use howitzers or IL2 bombing run so most Soviets players can't punish truck city easily unless they have good Penal micro to somehow get a satchel storm off. Throw in PAK43 with Fortifications and it can be nasty. Once you get your T4 up it's just a matter of microing your medium armor better (and playing well enough to maintain your fuel flow to get your armor fast enough).

Thanks for the feedback (also thanks to Loop and Francis) for the feedback.

I pretty much always go mechanized into schwere (or rather command panther as explained in my original post) and relying on sturmpio medkits for healing.

What would be the benefit of going BG rather than mechanized? This would leave me stripped of anything other than an ultralight supression platform and an expensive indirect fire unit (I won't even adress the searchlight).

As mentioned I considered the puma, but bear in mind that the price of this is more or less the same as a t-34 (IRRC Puma costs 10 less fuel 20 more mp). This means that I will have to micro insanely much better than my opponent as he can pretty much just brute force straight through any hole in my lines and can keep replacing losses whilst any lost puma marks a significant delay for any medium.

I will certainly consider your feedback and experiment, but for my skill level I still have a feeling that any equally skilled soviet player will punch above his weight vs an OKW player if he's using penals and medium spam (especially if supplementing with the fuel airdrop ability)

The BG truck gives you access to healing which can give your infantry a much stronger field presence. The isg is useful too but not always effective vs soviets.

However, keep in mind that it is very common for players to use their rushed unit to attack a prime target like an isg, just like hiw you might use a luchs to finally push on an mg position.

This is where you can get a lot of mileage out of mines and raketens: that initial assault with the first medium tank. A raketen covering an isg can be distraction enough for your opponent to allow you to maneuver volks around the field instead of being directly hunted by the t34s. Having a defensive target for your opponent is a massive strategic advantage. (Think brit emplacements for a moment.)

Also, never forget that volks have a snare.

I tend to go BG unless I have a really good early game and want to push my advantage with a Luches. It's somewhat map dependent but I like to use a forward but safe BG as a means of map control coupled with a nearby Schwere (which you can get out much sooner going BG). It means you have a safe zone to park your ISG(s) and lock down your fuel and/or a VP. Just make sure you have a Raken nearby to cover against the first tank which probably still will come before yours.

Current Soviet meta doesn't use howitzers or IL2 bombing run so most Soviets players can't punish truck city easily unless they have good Penal micro to somehow get a satchel storm off. Throw in PAK43 with Fortifications and it can be nasty. Once you get your T4 up it's just a matter of microing your medium armor better (and playing well enough to maintain your fuel flow to get your armor fast enough).

Heck I can't remember the last time I teched the forward retreat optin for the BG truck in a 1v1, but I suppose I could test it out just to shake up my strategy a bit (that 300mp cost though..)

I also have a feeling that the Flak HT might actually be just the things vs penalspam, as the quick suppression should render their PTRS rifles quite ineffective. I just have to be quick with the smoke and retreat as soon as the first t-34 pops its head out.

P.S. I'm actually doing better with OKW for the moment even though I haven't yet tried out any of the new strategies. I guess it goes to show that sometimes you just have to talk about your problems to feel better

Heck I can't remember the last time I teched the forward retreat optin for the BG truck in a 1v1, but I suppose I could test it out just to shake up my strategy a bit (that 300mp cost though..)

I also have a feeling that the Flak HT might actually be just the things vs penalspam, as the quick suppression should render their PTRS rifles quite ineffective. I just have to be quick with the smoke and retreat as soon as the first t-34 pops its head out.

P.S. I'm actually doing better with OKW for the moment even though I haven't yet tried out any of the new strategies. I guess it goes to show that sometimes you just have to talk about your problems to feel better

Nah suppression doesn't prevent penals to hunt down flak with ptrs.
Dps is too low to be a valuable incentive in retreating suppressed squads.
Any 120mm call in makes it a dead weight too
Flak ht is actually useless despite it should be okw suppressing platform.

Nah suppression doesn't prevent penals to hunt down flak with ptrs.
Dps is too low to be a valuable incentive in retreating suppressed squads.
Any 120mm call in makes it a dead weight too
Flak ht is actually useless despite it should be okw suppressing platform.

I've generally found the Flak HT to be very good at suppression and giving quite decent damage. My main problem with it is keeping it alive as it is such a glass canon. Although the smoke ability is very intense, it dosen't prevent the opponent from rushing onto it or just attacking ground throuigh it.

But overall I would agree that the Luchs is probably the more safe investment, and allthough others might disagree I rarely find the ISG to be worth it (As for the searchlight I think everyone agrees that it is useless in 1v1).

Luchs, puma and walking stuka on the other hand will much more often come in handy if you need something to carry you over before the schwere HQ.

I've generally found the Flak HT to be very good at suppression and giving quite decent damage. My main problem with it is keeping it alive as it is such a glass canon. Although the smoke ability is very intense, it dosen't prevent the opponent from rushing onto it or just attacking ground throuigh it.

But overall I would agree that the Luchs is probably the more safe investment, and allthough others might disagree I rarely find the ISG to be worth it (As for the searchlight I think everyone agrees that it is useless in 1v1).

Luchs, puma and walking stuka on the other hand will much more often come in handy if you need something to carry you over before the schwere HQ.

It's the overall battlegroup that is flawed, with all unit needing a buff except spotlight (that yes, it is useless in 1vs1)

Isg is the worst artillery ever, any experienced player will never ever move away a garrisoned hmg because if of the ridicolously low splash damage and aoe.
In teamgames you are gonna need something, so people get it, while in 1vs1, where there is no room for trashy useless units you never see battlegroup and isg ever.

Flak ht can't stop infantry reliably, ptrs are still going to force it, it's just a matter of rng deciding when.
Again like isg, it is supposed to be okw support weapon as alternative to the intended horribad raketenwerfer and mg34, yet they are even worse, unreliable and flawed.

It is incredible that a ww1 hmg suppress faster than a 20 mm flak.
55 fuel......

get raketens, plant mines and use faust to get the engine damage crit

get raketens, plant mines and use faust to get the engine damage crit

Yeah I think this is the way to go (and also usually what I do), but in open maps I feel like it can be very difficult to predict where to place the mines and the raketens will often struggle with the fast and mobile soviet mediums and run the risk of being wiped in a single well placed tank shell.

Even when this works a t-34 is almost half price of an OKW P4 (fuel-wise) so it is much less punishing for them to loose a tank. This is even more the case if they have the fueldrop.

But at the end of the day it is probably to a large extent a l2p issue on my behalf and I should just "git more gud" at said strategy

Thanks for the feedback.

Yeah I think this is the way to go (and also usually what I do), but in open maps I feel like it can be very difficult to predict where to place the mines and the raketens will often struggle with the fast and mobile soviet mediums and run the risk of being wiped in a single well placed tank shell.

Even when this works a t-34 is almost half price of an OKW P4 (fuel-wise) so it is much less punishing for them to loose a tank. This is even more the case if they have the fueldrop.

But at the end of the day it is probably to a large extent a l2p issue on my behalf and I should just "git more gud" at said strategy

Thanks for the feedback.

In open maps i recommend to get tank destroyers