@ Relic - please take a look at panther

Hi everyone,

Before we begin I have almost 350 hours played in this game with 70% as Germans and rest as Soviets. I'd like to post an observation I noticed while facing against as well as playing with the panther.

For 165 fuel I feel this tank which does almost no damage to infantry and is average at best against armor needs some minor adjustments.I played against a soviet player who did the usual su85 spam. So while using a panzer 4 to flank , I attacked his su85 headon with my panther (of course bad luck my pz4 was buttoned up and a conscript squad at grenaded him before he got in range). So I though ok i have my panther to attack, so i charge the su85 and he reverses almost as fast as my forward speed staying out of my range while continously getting shots off. Finally when I catch up, my panther is at 1/4th health.

What was more hilarious is that a lot of panthers shots BOUNCED off the su85 while every single one of his penetrated my front armor from max range and oh did I forget with PERFECT accuracy.

Yes I know the su85 is a tank destroyer but when you have a tank which is 165 fuel and requires the most expensive building to tech up and can't beat a 115 fuel 320mp spammable unit, I think something really needs to be looked into.

My suggestion is please REWARD German players who flank the su85. Nerf its warpspeed reverse capability and its turn speed. Also panther may need a minor buff for its performance against infantry as well as its range. I think its absolutely ridiculous that the su85 outranges even a freaking Tiger (super crap performance of tiger is something everyone knows and hope you are looking at it)

the problem wasnt the panther underperfrming it was the su85 overperforming - there are like 10 other topics discussing why the su85 is currently OP

Panther need some AI ability, and slightly cost reduction~

my favorite WWII vehicle is panther ausf F, I'd like to see a remodel DLC MVGame

yes I understand there are many topics about the SU85 ... my thread is more about the panther. I feel that the panther needs some looking into also. At 165 fuel it really is not worth it considering its piss poor anti inf capability and just about average AT capability. The fact that its outranged by the SU85 is the icing on the cake.The only advantage is its speed and even then barely catches up with a reversing su85.

Hmm, tanks are a poor counter to tank destroyers? And in other news, water is still wet.

Next please.

Hmm, tanks are a poor counter to tank destroyers? And in other news, water is still wet.

Next please.

Su85 is 115 fuel / 320 mp ... panther is 165 fuel /440 mp and requires battlephase 3 upgrade at hq. Do the math Mr wiseguy.

Su85 in this game can reverse away from any flanking attack which means flanking it is not really rewarding as it should.

panther irl was able to curb stomp su85. So if you have such simplistic statements like "Tanks are a poor counter to tank destroyers" kindly dont post especially if your a soviet fanboy

Next please ....

The SU-85 already has a horribly slow turn speed, the reverse speed could be reduced, but honestly the SU-85 seems like its about in the right spot. The panther, while expensive, absolutely wrecks an SU-85 if microed properly. You don't even have to use blitzkrieg to circle strafe it.

Panther needs some AI though, range increased to 55m maybe? But panther's frontal really kicks~ PZIV damage per hit needs to tone down a bit, and yes, building a panther won't ROFSTOMPING a SU-85 like alpha, closed beta, open beta before

Su85 is 115 fuel / 320 mp ... panther is 165 fuel /440 mp and requires battlephase 3 upgrade at hq. Do the math Mr wiseguy.

Su85 in this game can reverse away from any flanking attack which means flanking it is not really rewarding as it should.

panther irl was able to curb stomp su85. So if you have such simplistic statements like "Tanks are a poor counter to tank destroyers" kindly dont post especially if your a soviet fanboy

Next please ....

uh i don't know if you know this but, there is a prevalent thing that is very important in coh series. its called balance realism always will come second. so in a game of chess an TD should kill a tank unless ofc its flanked. (which is a another very important part of coh series). if you want more realism play Men of war its much more realistic if thats what your looking for. also as far as realism goes tank battles mostly took place at a range of 2000 meters so yea... one more note the panther is much newer tank and more advanced technology wise so ofc irl it could curb stomp a su85. the su85 was on top of that build off the t34 chassis. like most TD's of the time they build them off of "MBTs" (shermans, t34s, tigers, whatever they could find etc...) -__-

i however agree that the panther does need work in it's current state. im just not sure where, so im gonna let the devs decide that.

also stop calling people Communists or Nazis just because someone doesn't agree with you its stupid, silly and most importantly immature. (inb4 goodwins law )

The panther for all intents and purposes is a tank destroyer, so I'm not sure why it's considered illogical to compare su85 and panther. The panther has terrible AI accuracy and very little splash damage. It is a late game unit that is designed to counter armor.

That being said, I would agree that the problem is mostly with the SU85 over-performing more than anything else which has been talked to death on this forum. The panther could maybe use some tweaking but in general I find it satisfactory due to its high durability.

The panther for all intents and purposes is a tank destroyer, so I'm not sure why it's considered illogical to compare su85 and panther. The panther has terrible AI accuracy and very little splash damage. It is a late game unit that is designed to counter armor.

That being said, I would agree that the problem is mostly with the SU85 over-performing more than anything else which has been talked to death on this forum. The panther could maybe use some tweaking but in general I find it satisfactory due to its high durability.

give it scatter and AOE buff, make it good against infantry, a proper late-game all-around tank but still very good at AT role.

Hmm, tanks are a poor counter to tank destroyers? And in other news, water is still wet.

Next please.

so what IS the counter to the SU85 then?

I had my ass handed to me last night by an opponent who liberally used shreks and flanked with PIV's. SU-85 is probably slightly OP, but no where near to the extent that people on this forum believe. Shreks eat SU-85s.

I had my ass handed to me last night by an opponent who liberally used shreks and flanked with PIV's. SU-85 is probably slightly OP, but no where near to the extent that people on this forum believe. Shreks eat SU-85s.

Shreks have a very short range and unless the russian player is a noob, all he has to do is reverse away and su85 is outta danger

Shreks have a very short range and unless the russian player is a noob, all he has to do is reverse away and su85 is outta danger

Well either way you deny them the use of the SU85.

Well either way you deny them the use of the SU85.

Sure ... for a time of 30 secs while he brings in shock troops/guards/kv8/conscripts to make sure you retreat your shrek squds and his su85 is back to sniping everything.

I had my ass handed to me last night by an opponent who liberally used shreks and flanked with PIV's. SU-85 is probably slightly OP, but no where near to the extent that people on this forum believe. Shreks eat SU-85s.

I agree. it needs a slight nerf, like a reverse speed nerf for example. nothing too major. maybe 20 fuel increase.

The main problem with the Panther is that it cannot counter the T34 ram. You cannot micro away from the T34 ram. Secondly, this late-game T4 unit is out ranged by the cheaper SU-85.

Broken engine + broken gun is pretty stupid. Taking away broken gun and leaving broken engine is reasonable as it requires the Russian player to micro his other T34 to the rear of the Panther.

I agree. it needs a slight nerf, like a reverse speed nerf for example. nothing too major. maybe 20 fuel increase.

I agree that one or both of these nerfs would be sufficient to solve the issue. Probably reverse speed alone, plus making focussed vision a vet 1 ability.

The Panther is also for all intents and pruposes a tank destroyer, seeing as it's nearly worthless against infantry. That's a fine role, but it should definitely beat a SU-85 1v1. It's more expensive, comes later and has the same role, there is no reason that the SU-85 can simply reverse to destroy anything short of an Elefant. Panther is fine, SU needs a nerf; buffing the Panther now risks making the T-34 even more obsolete than it is now. In closed beta the Panther was what the SU is now, a godmode unit that makes any and all opposing armor useless merely by existing. It shouldn't go back to that.