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What are your opinions on giving g43 to panzergrenadiers?

15 May 2017, 13:42 PM
#1
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606

I recently saw ImperialDane casting a game, where the Ostheer player upgraded his panzergrenadiers with g43.

I never really considered this, because I always figured that, unlike with standard grens, it would not be a significant upgrade from their starting weapons.

Have I in fact been wrong in this assumption? Have any of you ever given g43s to Pgrens and if so, under what circumstances could this be a good idea?


P.S. I hope my headline is less ambiguous this time ;)
15 May 2017, 13:51 PM
#2
avatar of Maret

Posts: 711

G43 for PG give them long range. You can use doctrine with replacement of loses with osttrupens (and use them only for snare and team weapons) and PG with g43 and shrecks as replacement your Core infantry. This upgrade make PG universal (from terms of effective range). For close combat their have STG, for long g43 (and possibility to oneshot wounded models from enemy squad).
In fact i found that g43 very good choice for shreck squad too, because with that you can wound enemy from long range distance.
15 May 2017, 15:40 PM
#3
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606

jump backJump back to quoted post15 May 2017, 13:51 PMMaret
G43 for PG give them long range. You can use doctrine with replacement of loses with osttrupens (and use them only for snare and team weapons) and PG with g43 and shrecks as replacement your Core infantry. This upgrade make PG universal (from terms of effective range). For close combat their have STG, for long g43 (and possibility to oneshot wounded models from enemy squad).
In fact i found that g43 very good choice for shreck squad too, because with that you can wound enemy from long range distance.


Thanks for the reply, but wouldn't you en general want your units really good at one thing rather than average at several things? by getting them g43 they get better dps at long range but lower at short range, and their long range dps will still only be limited to the two models with the rifles. with something like pzfusiliers or grenadiers they are already good at long range so the g43 is a direct upgrade. with this it seems like you are just evening things out.

But I guess I see your point when combined with osttruppen, but this doctrine will still have you rely on grens, so barring that you lost them wouldn't it almost always be better to spend your 45 munis on upgrading them and keeping the pgrens for mid range and close up wipes or as tank hunters?
15 May 2017, 19:03 PM
#4
avatar of Maret

Posts: 711


But I guess I see your point when combined with osttruppen, but this doctrine will still have you rely on grens, so barring that you lost them wouldn't it almost always be better to spend your 45 munis on upgrading them and keeping the pgrens for mid range and close up wipes or as tank hunters?


PG is very tough guys, when they have vet3 they will be annihilate all infantry. In fact g43 give you long hand, if enemy soldiers don't want move to your PG, they will be shoted by g43, but if they move closer they will be beated with STG and g43 (g43 is not bad in close combat too, not so brilliant as STG but still potient). BUt if you PG only with STG then YOU need to move closer to enemy that is more risky. My start for such strategy was 2 MG42 and 2 engineers, then fast T2 and PG. Grenadiers only need for their faust and long range mg42 but if you have osttrupens and PG with g43 why you need grenadiers? PG have the same weakness as stormtroopes of soviets - small range of fire, but if ST have smoke grenades to move closer to enemy, PG don't have such usefull tool. This why g43 very good choice for them.
15 May 2017, 20:24 PM
#5
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

I'd save my munis rather then getting G43s on Pgrens. The DPS raises for long range but lowers at close as expected. However the overall DPS stays pretty much the same. You're better off getting other upgrades as Ostheer since the faction usually requires a lot of munitions. The StGs are also fantastic mid-close range weapons and pgrens with vet are fantastic. All G43s really do is lower RoF a bit but raise the moving accuracy multiplier from 0.5 on the Kar98, to 0.8 on the G43. Just stick with the StGs, they're great already and if you have screcks on the squad you shouldn't be relying on that squad for anti infantry.
16 May 2017, 06:55 AM
#6
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606

You're better off getting other upgrades as Ostheer since the faction usually requires a lot of munitions.


By this do you mean that you usually avoid g43 altogether? do you have any exceptions to this rule? Are there any maps or factions where you deem it better to get g43s on some of your grens rather than the lmg42?
16 May 2017, 14:08 PM
#7
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



By this do you mean that you usually avoid g43 altogether? do you have any exceptions to this rule? Are there any maps or factions where you deem it better to get g43s on some of your grens rather than the lmg42?



G43 pgrens - good against penals

G43 grens - good when you want mobile game, grens perform much better on the move (best in conjunction with pgrens, light vehicles, tanks and snipers, cheaper = easily affordable

Lmg42 grens - great for more defensive play, where grens stand still (eg with paks or hmgs), more expensive but better if you want to play the traditional ostheer play eith paks and hmgs.
16 May 2017, 14:16 PM
#8
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951



By this do you mean that you usually avoid g43 altogether? do you have any exceptions to this rule? Are there any maps or factions where you deem it better to get g43s on some of your grens rather than the lmg42?


G43s on regular Grenadiers is completely viable, and is often used in aggressive WM strategies because G43s are very accurate on the move. Also they tend to be a better option than LMG 42s on urban maps like Caen.

ShadowLink addresses your original topic, which is upgrading Panzergrenadiers with G43s. In this situation, he advises you to skip them, and I am inclined to agree with him. G43s on Panzergrenadiers does nothing but make your PGrens more consistent at dealing damage. Also, in the 2x Panzershrek + 2x G43 scenario, they do not become a viable anti-infantry squad because you upgrade them with two G43s.
16 May 2017, 14:29 PM
#9
avatar of Maret

Posts: 711


Also, in the 2x Panzershrek + 2x G43 scenario, they do not become a viable anti-infantry squad because you upgrade them with two G43s.

Don't forget about +20% sight with g43 for PG.
17 May 2017, 04:43 AM
#10
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 951

jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2017, 14:29 PMMaret

Don't forget about +20% sight with g43 for PG.


That is true, however +20% sight still does not make them a viable anti-infantry unit. It does improve their utility, but there are much more reliable recon units in the WM lineup, for instance the Sdkfz. 222. I would rather spend the munitions elsewhere, say for Panzerfausts or Bundled Grenades.

As for Hector's suggestion to upgrade PGs with G43s vs Penals, I would still save the munitions. PGs are already better than Penals, G43s only make that long-range engagement easier.
17 May 2017, 07:12 AM
#11
avatar of Joshua85

Posts: 606

I wish there was an upvote option on this page. I'm getting som much good and well-considered advice.

It is amazing that after 1000+ hours there are still so many small tweaks to lean and improve on. I really speaks volumes on the quality of the game the way it can still teach and reward seasoned players :)
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