Hi there. Me and my arranged teammate in 2v2 (both ostheer) keep stumbling upon 2 players that both spam T34-76s. Most maps we face this strategy on are the ones with the most shotblockers like Elst Outskirts, Pripyat and Schilberg outskirts. But unfortunately we also face this strategy on other maps as well.
First one Soviet player goes engineers into penals and gets them the ptrs upgrade. When I say penals I mean penals, at least 3. The other guy gets engineers and a maxim or two and then proceeds to get guards or penals too. With guards its usually 2 and with penals at least 3. Since Ostheer infantry can't fight these units head on, even pgrens have a hard time vs mass penals, you will lose ground. This then snowballs into both players getting an early T34-76 since they can skip light vehicles as you can't reliably push out 222s since you have almost no map and the mass ptrs spam counters your 222s.
Once the T34-76s start rolling out you are in big trouble. Then one of the guys either saves up for an IS2 or a KV2 and the other gets an su85. We are at a loss as what we can do against this. This synergy seems mighty powerful to us. Add on top multiple demos everywhere and you are in for a treat.
ps. We don't have replays enabled because the better performance is wanted.
How to deal with double t34-76 spam in 2v2?
29 Apr 2017, 13:24 PM
#1
Posts: 2066
Kappa
29 Apr 2017, 13:39 PM
#2
Posts: 1487
Double at of any sort
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29 Apr 2017, 13:59 PM
#3
Posts: 2066
Double at of any sort
I am afraid you didn't read it properly. They both go multiple penals or guards, double at guns are vulnerable with T34-76s on the prowl. Not to mention the mp costs of that, that is 640 mp worth of static at that needs to set up and is vulnerable to infantry spam.
Kappa
29 Apr 2017, 22:56 PM
#4
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Their early game sounds heavily counterable by MG42s as well as snipers. Maxims may have 6 men but they're underwhelming in many other departments. As for mid/lategame, pak walls defended by your 42s into StuGs if they're massing T34s. Tellers when possible. Swarms rely heavily on not being crippled and being able to quickly destroy units in quick succession results in major losses if they over commit. Like game losing losses. I suggest maybe double pio into double 42, or you could do double MG42 into sniper gren and then build on grens since you need infantry later in the game.
30 Apr 2017, 02:25 AM
#5
Posts: 1072
I feel like the real problem youre having is with the infantry spam --> no map control --> no fuel or munis for defenses against tanks.
As ostheer you can't really go toe to toe with penals with just grens. You need very unpredictable mg placement (use fog war and pios for vision to ambush and halt penal flanks. I'd get 3 MG's between the two of you and focus on one side and the middle of the map. Once you've stopped the penals from going nuts you should get double mortars to counter the maxims. Slowly move forward and Lay single anti personel mines to discourage flanks on the mgs.
GET A 251 HALFTRACK. This'll keep your support weapons and men on the Feild and deny them time to lay demos due to constant pressure. You need a HALFTRACK when going double ostheer.
Once you've kept the infantry in check get a p4 (use to defend flanks) and them spam drugs. If its a map with lots of shot blocks lay tellers or reigel AT mines if you have the right doc.
Properly micro this strategy and they should be completely shut down. Be careful harrassing points with your infantry due to possible demos. Don't dive your tanks.
Ostheer is all about combined arms. Don't lose your support weapons and play defensively. Always make sure your retreat paths are safe.
As ostheer you can't really go toe to toe with penals with just grens. You need very unpredictable mg placement (use fog war and pios for vision to ambush and halt penal flanks. I'd get 3 MG's between the two of you and focus on one side and the middle of the map. Once you've stopped the penals from going nuts you should get double mortars to counter the maxims. Slowly move forward and Lay single anti personel mines to discourage flanks on the mgs.
GET A 251 HALFTRACK. This'll keep your support weapons and men on the Feild and deny them time to lay demos due to constant pressure. You need a HALFTRACK when going double ostheer.
Once you've kept the infantry in check get a p4 (use to defend flanks) and them spam drugs. If its a map with lots of shot blocks lay tellers or reigel AT mines if you have the right doc.
Properly micro this strategy and they should be completely shut down. Be careful harrassing points with your infantry due to possible demos. Don't dive your tanks.
Ostheer is all about combined arms. Don't lose your support weapons and play defensively. Always make sure your retreat paths are safe.
30 Apr 2017, 09:13 AM
#7
Posts: 2066
Their early game sounds heavily counterable by MG42s as well as snipers. Maxims may have 6 men but they're underwhelming in many other departments. As for mid/lategame, pak walls defended by your 42s into StuGs if they're massing T34s. Tellers when possible. Swarms rely heavily on not being crippled and being able to quickly destroy units in quick succession results in major losses if they over commit. Like game losing losses. I suggest maybe double pio into double 42, or you could do double MG42 into sniper gren and then build on grens since you need infantry later in the game.
On open maps their early game is counterable, but not on the huge shotblocker maps that I listed, and that is the problem.
Interesting, I will try the strategies though. Thank you!
Kappa
30 Apr 2017, 09:20 AM
#8
Posts: 2066
I feel like the real problem youre having is with the infantry spam --> no map control --> no fuel or munis for defenses against tanks.
Yes indeed. As far as I know I tried to describe that yes.
As ostheer you can't really go toe to toe with penals with just grens. You need very unpredictable mg placement (use fog war and pios for vision to ambush and halt penal flanks. I'd get 3 MG's between the two of you and focus on one side and the middle of the map. Once you've stopped the penals from going nuts you should get double mortars to counter the maxims. Slowly move forward and Lay single anti personel mines to discourage flanks on the mgs.
Alright, will give this a shot! Although I still think it might be hard on these complete shotblocker maps. Any ideas for those maps? Like for example Elst Outskirts
GET A 251 HALFTRACK. This'll keep your support weapons and men on the Feild and deny them time to lay demos due to constant pressure. You need a HALFTRACK when going double ostheer.
I must admit I neglect the 251 in favor for a 222. Perhaps this is one of the major mistakes I am making, I will adjust this and try it!
Once you've kept the infantry in check get a p4 (use to defend flanks) and them spam drugs. If its a map with lots of shot blocks lay tellers or reigel AT mines if you have the right doc.
Drugs? Well I find the p4 usually comes slower than the first 2 T34 (one from each opponent). This in combination with the penal ptrs and guard ptrs spam pretty much negates the P4. I sometimes think I am better off 'rushing' a Brummbär. Your thoughts on this?
Properly micro this strategy and they should be completely shut down. Be careful harrassing points with your infantry due to possible demos. Don't dive your tanks.
Ostheer is all about combined arms. Don't lose your support weapons and play defensively. Always make sure your retreat paths are safe.
Copy that!
Thank you!
Kappa
30 Apr 2017, 20:04 PM
#9
Posts: 1072
Yes indeed. As far as I know I tried to describe that yes.
Alright, will give this a shot! Although I still think it might be hard on these complete shotblocker maps. Any ideas for those maps? Like for example Elst Outskirts
Veto them. If you don't then pgrens are good and lay lots of S-mine squares on flanks.
I must admit I neglect the 251 in favor for a 222. Perhaps this is one of the major mistakes I am making, I will adjust this and try it!
Drugs? Well I find the p4 usually comes slower than the first 2 T34 (one from each opponent). This in combination with the penal ptrs and guard ptrs spam pretty much negates the P4. I sometimes think I am better off 'rushing' a Brummbär. Your thoughts on this?
I meant to say stugs ( autocorrect Ed to drugs lol) They are perfect counter to medium spam due to high ROF and good pen and accuracy. If they each get t34s you should each get a p4 also.
Don't get a brummbarr. T4 takes too long to get to and it won't help vs swarming t34s and panther won't help against infantry and has bad ROF and accuracy to deal with spam.
Copy that!
Thank you!
30 Apr 2017, 20:49 PM
#10
Posts: 930
T34s are only good on defense of flanking, so use mines and paks covering your sides.
Don't spread as axis, focus one half of the map until you get your late game units out.
Do just like your opponents do, get all types of units, snipers, mgs and mortars (In my experience all the high ranked axis teams are spamming mgs and mortars and it is very hard to counter that.)
If you use cheese commanders with fuel drop or Opel trucks get T3 and stugs out asap then go for T4 and get Pwerfers and panthers later.
If by then soviets didn't surrender just camp VPs with MGs and mortars.
Don't spread as axis, focus one half of the map until you get your late game units out.
Do just like your opponents do, get all types of units, snipers, mgs and mortars (In my experience all the high ranked axis teams are spamming mgs and mortars and it is very hard to counter that.)
If you use cheese commanders with fuel drop or Opel trucks get T3 and stugs out asap then go for T4 and get Pwerfers and panthers later.
If by then soviets didn't surrender just camp VPs with MGs and mortars.
13 May 2017, 01:11 AM
#11
Posts: 1153 | Subs: 1
I have a few additional suggestions
1) G43 Grenadiers. They do well against penals due to more mid dps. They're like a poor man's Panzergrenadier
2) Sniper. Big micro investment, but a sniper after 3 grens and MG can work very well. Have the other Ostheer get the halftrack and maybe a PGren if they went light on T1
3) Early munition/fuel cache. Fuel cache if you're down on territory, munition cache to get upgrades faster/save for late game abilities. I'd recommend this while waiting for fuel for T3. Stuka CAS is great against tank pushes or supporting your own attacks
1) G43 Grenadiers. They do well against penals due to more mid dps. They're like a poor man's Panzergrenadier
2) Sniper. Big micro investment, but a sniper after 3 grens and MG can work very well. Have the other Ostheer get the halftrack and maybe a PGren if they went light on T1
3) Early munition/fuel cache. Fuel cache if you're down on territory, munition cache to get upgrades faster/save for late game abilities. I'd recommend this while waiting for fuel for T3. Stuka CAS is great against tank pushes or supporting your own attacks
13 May 2017, 01:31 AM
#12
1 Posts: 2075 | Subs: 2
Toss in Marked Target and they can realistically run over just about any tank you try to counter with. Sure you may catch 1 or 2 with a teller but the rest will flood through and you'll be f'd.
Seriously, for 80 fuel you get a tank that is nearly as good as a P4, what did you guys expect. Im surprised it took this long to become an issue.
Seriously, for 80 fuel you get a tank that is nearly as good as a P4, what did you guys expect. Im surprised it took this long to become an issue.
13 May 2017, 03:51 AM
#13
Posts: 1072
Toss in Marked Target and they can realistically run over just about any tank you try to counter with. Sure you may catch 1 or 2 with a teller but the rest will flood through and you'll be f'd.
Seriously, for 80 fuel you get a tank that is nearly as good as a P4, what did you guys expect. Im surprised it took this long to become an issue.
They certainly are undervalued however ostheer has all the tools they need to counter t34 spam.
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