How to counter high level Brits play

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  VS

  Finndeed

  Fredbrik

  Vs Fredbric's Brits

  by: Finndeed map: Road to Kharkov

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I need some specific advice about how to deal with brits, while there are some obvious mistakes (i didnt realise the at section was so good!) there are some areas i just dont know about. Firstly:

Mech or Med? And on what maps?

Is the P4 ever worth vs Brits?

Does the Brit AT gun ever miss? if so what is the chance?

Should i upgrades Obers to LMG or STG vs brits?

How do i counter the Croc? Particularly when its backed up by 2 AT guns?

Anything else you care to mention...

Thank you in advance you beautiful people!

In order for the questions you asked:

Mech and med truck is all dependant on map/opponet's commander if you know it. Brits normally do not have snares, which is why the mech truck can be very powerful against them. However you also should not underestimate the ISG, since brits must stick to cover most of the time and remain stationary the ISG is an excellent choice. I think what you select on what maps is entirely based on your playstyle, obviously certain maps benefit light vehicles more than others such as Halbe or Arnhem checkpoint.

I believe the P4 is the go to tank as OKW, it can definatly deal with the cromwell with medicore luck however this is also the issue with OKW. With the p4 lackings penetration and flamer heavies at the disposal of the allies (KV-8, croc), if your opponet catches you offguard with a flamer heavy and you've sank your fuel into a p4 you're more or less at the mercy of it for 5-7 minutes. So you have to ask yourself when you go p4, can he exploit this flaw in OKW design or do I wait and see his choice. The p4 can definatly be worth against brits though as it can be against any faction, just avoid snares to the best of your ability and respect AT guns.

Yes brit AT guns miss, but it is very rare as they have a +50% aim bonus. The gun itself is a clone of the pak40 and then it gets the aim bonus making it the most powerful standard AT gun at vet 0.

Ober upgrades are more or less map dependant, cover dependant, and opponet dependant. Vs brits the IRStG 44s are more attractive since brits need to stick to cover to get their debuffs nullified and gain their RoF buffs. When selecting which upgrade to grab, you need to considering all of the following. Map shape, cover frequency, opponet faction, possible areas you're going to send the squad and garrisons. On longer open maps like Langreskaya and Halbe I'd suggest the MG34 as you'll generally be fighting at long range and the maps have limited cover. On CQC maps or heavy cover maps like Caen I'd suggest going StG44s as all that cover will be heavily nullified and the close quaters aspect of the map is where StGs are at their most powerful. Don't forget the StG44s cover reduction also works against garrisons and increases detection which is good against snipers. Also be sure to consider crater frequency from mortars, offmap and rocket arty. A map may be open and coverless at the start of the match but may be littered with craters by the end from land mattresses, mortar pits etc.

The only true effective counter against the croc is the JP4. Standard churchills can be dealt more or less with raketens, but as you saw that is very difficult against flamethrower heavies. AVRE doesn't need an explaination. The p4s pen is to low to reliably pen so you take a gamble wether or not you can pen the front armor, and the panther RoF is to low to deal with the croc in a timely manner before backup can aid the churchills. The KT can deal with churchills alone easily, but again the RoF is rather low for its high HP pool and brit AT guns have very respectible penetration. The Command Panther can possibly deal with it as you saw but against panther RoF is rather low so it's a risky move.

If you're against a croc supported by 55. brit infantry, AT guns and a croc the best solution I see is either flank from all sides into a panther/JP4 rush once the AT guns are either cleared or forced away OR you could go for a stuka. The stuka is a big risk in 1v1 especially for OKW as their fuel constraints are tight and allows little room for error, but if you can clear both AT guns you can go for the croc with your command panther. You can also use other indirect to clear the AT guns like ISGs but they're medicore, or you can select a commander with a good offmap arty. Scavenge offmap is pretty good and the commander itself still retains many meta qualities. The croc AT gun/FF combo is very difficult to breakthrough without longer ranged AT guns and infantry rushes like I suggested are often heavy on bleed since the croc is so potent plus the mortar pit position which is just nice AFK free kills. You did kill the mortar pit though so that was good.

Other things:

Had I lost that 1st engagement like Fredbrik did I would've left the game immediatly. That was very well executed. Unfortunatly you did not retain the MG for long, somewhat greed but it even surprised me how quickly the sniper took his 2nd shot to kill the MG, also lucky he didn't miss because retreat RA bonus.

Keep your AT weapons on prioritize. I saw your command panther using its main gun to attack infantry, and I understand that yes it may be slightly a bit more damage, but is it worth your opponet knowing exactly where to point his AT guns? That's up for you to decide. Essentially if you're going to be advancing shortly, best to keep your tank hunter out of sight to keep his guns unsure of your possible approaches.

Just be careful of where you put your tanks. Your p4 started having map issues near your fuel and it was inrange of an AT gun and you could've lost it there.

Even in the replay I honestly thought your were going to kill the croc when you dove with your command panther. I was surprised it lived so I don't blame you for making that decision since I would have. It was good that you showed restraint using the command panther though. The first time you got the croc low you had about 2/3 HP left and probably 2 more hits to deal on the croc, instead of diving and losing your panther to possible AT guns you just held back and waited for another opportunity. A good safe decision is better than unnecessary risks. One mistake I found was when you brought in the command panther. At the very moment you called it in, he didn't have any tanks worthy of that callin so I don't see the reason to do so when you could've possibly gone for a KT. Had the croc been revealed then you can make the choice, but a premptive panther is just more or less a T70 against infantry. It's like the VP police. And don't worry about calling it in the second you see armor, no current armor is going to annihilate a squad as long as you retreat immediatly. That T70 doesn't exist anymore

Nice squad preservation from both of you for the most part, a lot of grenades got more squads than I thought which was shocking. In perticular your infiltration grenades against his MG to flatten a building.

You're one of the better players at the game, it's hard to critique one of the best but I hope this enlightens you a bit on some ways to deal with brits. If you have any questions, comments or concerns don't hesitate to ask. Also if you have any specific questions that we as a strategist section can answer such as "What would you do on X map or against X composition" or need to know specific values for weapons, cover bonuses etc.

Best of luck

/set green

EDIT: Reverted back to "set none". Someone moved it to OKW strategies while I was writing the review.

Thanks for the review man!

Yeah fredbric and i were talking, He thinks the KT would have been better as it can kill inf better and take on the croc AND has more chance of bouncing the at guns. What i worried about tho was the KT getting hit and snared and then being unable to escape the at guns.

I feel like those AT rifles actually did quite a lot of inf damage to me as well :/

I dont know its hard, Brits seem to have very few clear counters.

Frankly I think those AT gun accuracy bonus's need to go.

Were i to play this again it think i would focused all my infantry around killing those at guns to the exclusion of all/most else. Those are what lost me the game i think.

I'm no pro, but I've found that the Jagdpanzer is a much more worthwhile investment than the P4. Especially against Brits. It's high range means you can have it snipe emplacements which it takes care of pretty fast. A pair of them can at the VERY LEAST make a flaming heavy force a retreat and if you don't have too many AT guns nearby you can chase it down and kill it.

The downside is that it has no anti infantry capability. But it can deal with emplacments, flamers, Cromwells with ease, and they'll help against comets if they come out.

For lategame or team games where a KT will most likely come out, a KT backed up with 2 hidden Jagdpanzers slightly behind it is awesome. when the T34's come rushing in or if there's a swarm of jacksons and the KT start taking hits, let the KT tank for a bit while the Jags come up and wipe out EVERYTHING. I've done it a million times.

And yeah, the Infantry gun sucks but it's decent against Brit cheese.

I think the logic behind the 6lber's accuracy bonus is due to Infantry Sections not having an AT snare.

It might've worked out to remove it if IS had a snare ability when they wield a PIAT, I dunno.

I had another game against a brit player after this one where I used KT plus a JP4 and it worked really well! I still lost the game on VP's.

I think the biggest problem with going KT is how long it takes to get there, and then how long it takes to get support for it. And then how much support you have to put into it to keep it from getting bum rushed.

The biggest problem I face when I go JP4 is firefly. Firefly and croco will literaly shut you down no matter what you get.

The firefly will fire tulips on your JP4 and you cannod dodge them because you are slow assault gun.
And once JP4 eats damage from firefly main gun and 2 tulips and is stuned briefly, then it´s almost gg for it.

hmmm yeah, i guess you have to have a rak somewhere in this mix...

hmmm yeah, i guess you have to have a rak somewhere in this mix...

Croc will rape your raketten before it can even look in its direction and set up lol. Best bet will be to lay a lot of mines, try to steal a 6 pounder and get a KT.

Croc will rape your raketten before it can even look in its direction and set up lol. Best bet will be to lay a lot of mines, try to steal a 6 pounder and get a KT.

He meant raks, jp4 and kingtiger



But still, even if you have perfect defence, skillplanez will destroy your day :/

He meant raks, jp4 and kingtiger



But still, even if you have perfect defence, skillplanez will destroy your day :/

I see! Yep they will lol. Sometimes my schwere shoots them down and then they crash on my units

Personally I've been experimenting with Elite Armor vs. Brits with some success - I'm not exactly top 100 so I can't vouch for it's effectiveness vs. someone of Fredbriks caliber but it's pretty handy if you can survive until the late game. HEAT Rounds allows you to either field a PZ4 with extra oomph against Comets or Crocs or use it with a Panther/JP4 as a hardcounter. Follow it up with a Strumtiger as your AT Gun Wiper/VP Police and you have a pretty effective combined arms army.

HEAT Rounds allows you to either field a PZ4 with extra oomph against Comets or Crocs or use it with a Panther/JP4 as a hardcounter.

HEAT might help but the big problem with Panther/PZ4 vs Croc is the rate of fire. By the time you should be able to destroy a croc with Panther/PZ4 the Croc already left the frontlines, got married and voted against leaving the EU. On the other hand, HEAT is useful for JP but without HEAT rounds it's also capable of taking on a Croc, so picking it only for the Croc vs X matchup might be a bit too much when you can also take other commanders for other high iq callins that can help you win the game.

Since this thread regards OKW vs Brits: I recently had a game on Minsk Pocket vs Brits where he locked down the middle with 2 Vickers, a UC and a trench. I found it difficult to flank because I have to walk so far around that he had enough time to reposition. How to best deal with this?

LEIG's probably your best option

Since this thread regards OKW vs Brits: I recently had a game on Minsk Pocket vs Brits where he locked down the middle with 2 Vickers, a UC and a trench. I found it difficult to flank because I have to walk so far around that he had enough time to reposition. How to best deal with this?

One or two leigs will make him cry. If you protect them they will never be touched.

One or two leigs will make him cry. If you protect them they will never be touched.

Just like not taking your children to the Catholic church.

Just like not taking your children to the Catholic church.

Exactly

Finndeed and Dangerous-Cloth, this is disturbing on many levels. Specially as it seems as a "inside" joke