The Problem with the Pak - A video for Relic

I'm going to quote Pqumsieh to start -

I still feel T3 is extremely viable even if your opponent goes T4 and pushes out SU-85's. That said, I typically rely on PAK's to push my opponent's armor back. An Ostwind and a few Grens backed by a Pak or two can be a very valid thread to a T4 Soviet player.

Just my personal opinion of course, others are welcomed to disagree.

http://www.twitch.tv/daveschro/b/439041081

Skip to 4:40 until the end.

When this happens do you understand why people get upset? There are really debilitating instances like this in this game that turn the game for no reason. The panzerfaust bug can end a game when it does no damage to an m3. I've had that happen to me endlessly, and if I remember to catch it again I'll post up the video but come on. This isn't like some hidden bug that never happens. All you have to do is play the actual game to see how crippling some of these things really are. Yet the top priority seems to be extinguishing strafe and making it so Panzer 4s can't kill a sniper in the open field...

About the actual bug - There seems to be a target priority shift when the 76 moves to artillery mode that causes the pak to target something else (the engis in this instance). Also, why can't it shoot in the beginning of that engagement? A pole? Really?

Also - fix the targeting of the SU85. I don't need to provide a video. It happens every game. Not only does it snipe squads relentlessly, it targets the equipment itself. It can easily destroy a pak, an mg, or a mortar (the actual weapon) because right now, it doesn't target the infantry attached to it. It just pounds the equipment. Why, with the over the top use the SU85 gets, this hasn't been understood/addressed up until this point is really sad.

Panzer 4 was a huge problem though...wait, no.

Haven`t you seen the Dev cast? They don`t care about bugs =) If something happens while they play they can use those nasty cheats to win the game....

Ace linked no less than 4 vids of SU85 pwnage on PaKs.

Ill dignthem up reference support when I get home if no one beats me to it.

3 vids, but nevertheless its just annoying. the PAK itself has a target size of 20 but that doesnt really matter cause you can only attack a weapons crew while as long as said weapon is crewed. and crew men have size 1 as all other infantry. these means when a su85 shoots a PAK its always calculated missus and only fired by scatter.knowing that the SU85 has the lowest scatter values compared to other at dedicated weaponary like stug, su76, pak 40, zis-3 even much better compared to the elefant, leads me to the conclusion the scatter is the reason fot it being able to snipe inf and destroy whole team weapons. the projectile just flies in such a norrow cone that it hits the weapon as shot blocker regulary destroying the weapon in the process.

i can't belive that this behavior is intended. and for the rest of the SU85: granted its meant as a late game TD. but its too cheap for who superior it performs specially since I don,t see any other drewbacks for it.

regards
ace

Why did I pay 60 bucks to troubleshoot someone else's software which they were paid to do?

Put me on salary and I'll find you all of the debilitating bugs with linked proof.

You bitch a lot Dave.

Yeah thats a pretty bad case and I agree it shouldn't happen like that. They need a accuracy buff, especially since ATG generally only get off 1-2 shots in an engagement with mobile vehicles. Those hits should almost always count when it comes head on. However a vehilce at mid/long range going perpendicular to the line of fire should have a greater chance of evasion.

The elevation on the hill might be compounding to the inaccuracies. Especially since you shooting directly over the crest. I remember in CoH1 hills used to impact sniper/atg accuracy a fair bit.

You bitch a lot Dave.

And you have a beautiful singing voice

Why did I pay 60 bucks to troubleshoot someone else's software which they were paid to do?

Put me on salary and I'll find you all of the debilitating bugs with linked proof.

You're in luck because they are hiring!

http://hire.jobvite.com/CompanyJobs/Careers.aspx?c=qds9Vfwt&cs=9myaVfwJ&page=Job%20Description&j=oGyEXfwz

good luck

2+ years balance experience in the industry

Does furious forum posting about balance count?

Tbh, that endlessly long requirement list could be shortened to the first bulletin.

It seemed to me that it kept wanting to target the CEs? Although for some of the shots, the gun was pointed at the SU-76, but the shots were going in the direction of the Combat Engineers. Very sad though

I lol'd hard at this. That Pak crew must have thought since they are vet 2 they can get high on the job.

The Su85 should be on the top of their priority list. I think we have submitted enough evidence for it. Can't understand why people think it is balanced.

The paks(and Zis) should also be right up there on the list as this example shows. If that was a T70/su85 or any tank the pak would have been mince a lot quicker. The corner of the bridge part seems to have obstructed their line of fire, but shouldnt have. Not sure if this has to do with target priority because of the barraging su76..

the pak wasnt firing because of a true sight bug - obstacles like walls for example still cause loss of vision even if you trample them with tanks ir arty, secondly once the su76 changed to barage mode the target for the pak got changed to pios - never trust the targeting priority NEVER

Haha, noob pak crew.. "Wait, the engies are repairing our target! Shoot them!"

You bitch a lot Dave.

Can you stop posting bullshit?
People complaining because they love the game and they want Relic to improve it, stop being an idiot alright?

Back to topic, I never saw a Pak38 miss except it was a vetted M8

You guys realize it's not simply "missing" the 76 right?

When the 76 enters artillery mode the targeting priority shifted to the engineers. Before it entered the mode it was fine. After uploading this I remembered that this has happened to me before. This is a pretty major bug considering someone can just role a 76 up and pop artillery mode to avoid a pak shooting at it.

I bitch because I lose games to crap like this...and the faust bug, the SU85 target priority, etc. Rifle Grenade cancel bug continually exhausts my munitions. I really can't understand why it's that hard to figure out that these are glaring issues - above strafe, above "scatter values". I've seen how their Dev tools work so now I really question what the hell goes on at work for them, and why they request that we do all the work for them. They spent all this time on these things for this brand new patch and things that literally are "broken" (a word qduffy doesn't like but it's true) are not addressed, so you'll hear about it until A. I get tired of playing/posting about it which, admittedly, I'm super stubborn sometimes to a fault or B. It's fixed - at which point you'll also receive a "thank you"

Also, if you haven't figured it out by now, I'm really not here to make friends by playing PC and kiss up to developers just so that they will continue to visit the site. I call a spade a spade. You want honest feedback from an intelligent person who likes your game, is pissed because it could (re: SHOULD) be better, and has now purchased all company of heroes products (save for the digital collector's edition) since 2006? Here you go.

Lastly, notice that these are all affecting the Axis side. I know one for the Soviets off the top of my head happens with the faust where it kills a whole squad that exits a M3 right before it's hit, which was bizarrely poetic justice in the game it happened, and it's still an issue. If there are more, I haven't run into them in my massive amount of time in the game. Oh, and blizzards suck.

I'm actually glad to see I'm not the only one who suffers random "pak can't see target" issues. I have absolutely no idea what counts / doesn't count as shot or LoS blockers for the pak crew but it comes up in pretty much any game where I use it. The VP was blocking the shot, really?

There's something goofy with a lot of targeting tables to be honest. Besides units not auto targeting what I would consider obviously proper targets, I was playing a lazy team game last night and at near range (maybe 10 meters real life) I had a stationary P4 miss an artillery-ing SU76 *5* times in a row. The other player actually commented on it when I had to retreat the P4 from a ZiS.

Would be nice to get an official word from Relic on this...