Your wishes for the Panther

The community patchers seem to avoid this thread though like the plague. I guess there is nothing planned about the Panther. -.-

I noticed that too. They are usually super involved in the discussion and pointing out things. Here they are remarkably absent. Probably because they don´t intend to fix the Panther. That´s the problem with letting a few people patch the game. Only what they deem to be a problem is going to be fixed.

On-the-move accuracy.

They can't introduce any new changes, so any suggestions for new changes are futile.

They can't introduce any new changes, so any suggestions for new changes are futile.

How so? Wasn´t it their decision to change penals etc. Why not change the Panther? Or is there a deadline and we end up with a half assed patch that doesn´t even adress all issues?

How so? Wasn´t it their decision to change penals etc. Why not change the Panther? Or is there a deadline and we end up with a half assed patch that doesn´t even adress all issues?

In short:
Show Spoiler

Not so short:
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stuff

Thank you for explaining.

I guess that´s it with the patch hype for me.

Edit: Though I remember that there was already an option that the Panther is underperforming. So the developers are aware of the issue. It´s just that everybody voted for the screwed up infantry combat. As in: "I want to get rid of my Herpes but Aids is a bigger issue." Doesn´t mean Herpes is fine.

My wish is simple; remove the bazooka.

thats too harsh. remove brits.

Thank you for explaining.

I guess that´s it with the patch hype for me.

Edit: Though I remember that there was already an option that the Panther is underperforming. So the developers are aware of the issue. It´s just that everybody voted for the screwed up infantry combat. As in: "I want to get rid of my Herpes but Aids is a bigger issue." Doesn´t mean Herpes is fine.

dont worry, it only takes about ~4-5 months for the current patch to get released. maybe the next balance patch concerning the panther will come next XMAS TriHard

Panther needs a range buff and better Accuracy, maybe nerf its health in return.

just give the the same pintle stats as the okw panther. and better accuracy it misses alot. well the ost one does.

Or is there a deadline and we end up with a half assed patch that doesn´t even adress all issues?

Winter patch is already turning into a spring patch. This can only mean the patch should be so polished that we're going to need sunglasses so it doesen't shine our eyes out.

Panther has decent statistics, but is really let down by it missing sometimes up to 5 shots in a row. When it misses, it doesen't do damage --> it doesen't get veterancy. This tank really got forgotten years ago when they nerfed blitz. Nowadays we have things like the Comet, that annihilates infantry at long range and is very consistent against enemy tanks aswell. And it comes with emergency war speed that has no extra use-cost and white phosphorous which, when you actually get it to work, will most likely decrew team weapons. Going for a panther is a fuel and munition sink. You can get one if you like, but it's in a very bad spot against british, and sometimes even USF. You're much better off getting your AT from a different source as Panther doesen't come early enough for those light vehicles(though these are going to be nerfed) and you need some sort of tank against infantry aswell.

As stated by many above, just give it better accuracy. I would be more than happy with it's current damage and penetration if it would actually make the enemy think twice about facing a vet0 panther.

Don't change them. Price them to their current performance.

Don't change them. Price them to their current performance.

Then the Panther could be bad at what it does every 6min 30secs instead of being shit every 7 minutes. Hardly an improvement.

just give it the ability to kill infantry,and a little buff to its rate of fire,anything more would make it overpowered...also,personal opinion,it's to fast when reversing

just give it the ability to kill infantry,and a little buff to its rate of fire,anything more would make it overpowered...also,personal opinion,it's to fast when reversing

I agree, rate of fire + better MGs would make the Panther worthwhile. That´s pretty much what the OKW Panther has over the ostheer Panther anyways. The speed would have to be tuned down as a whole as you can´t adjust reverse speed separately.

I agree, rate of fire + better MGs would make the Panther worthwhile. That´s pretty much what the OKW Panther has over the ostheer Panther anyways. The speed would have to be tuned down as a whole as you can´t adjust reverse speed separately.

Really,lol?...didn't know that.That in fact sounds like lazy work from Relic's part.Welp,all tanks seem RC cars with cannons to me,especially Comets and Panthers

Probably the Panther is ok if for it's very minor need for a fire speed increase. I feel that if the over performance of the Comet and the broken call in spam of the Soviets is fixed the Panther will be good.

I'm not sure the panther need anything in fact. let me develop why.

The Panther is still great vs Soviet and USF. Some mentioned the issue with the Su-76, but this is an issue with the SU-76, not the panther.

Now the real issue lies with the Brit.

Let's remember that Coh2 is a RNG game. The panther design relies essentially on its armor. What is Armor? a better chance to bounce shots which is purely RNG.
So vs Soviet and USF, the match is mostly decided by RNG, will the M10/M36/SU-85 penetrate the frontal armor of the Panther? If yes, is the next one also going to penetrate etc... and From this expectation is build the balance of power between the Panther and its natural counters and targets.
The Panther doesn't really need a lot of life since it simply deflect 70% of the shot it is suppose to take (at max range). And in order to balance its superior armor, the panther has lower firepower which is perfectly fine if we stick to this balance logic.

Now comes the Brit.
First we must acknowledge that Brit don't have easy-to-use stock snares like the USF doesn't have easy-to-use stock mines.
So in order to balance this kind of lack of snare feature (stupid feature we all agree on that), Relic gave Brit really high penetration AT units. Atgun, Comets and Sherman FF have extremly high chance to penetrate frontally panthers. So as Brit if you can't snare your target you can at least deal to it a lot of damage.

And this is where the Panther's problem lies. Panthers and mainly Ostheer Panthers aren't mean to be penetrated every single round even at max range. they are mean to bounce majority of shots to be balance with they lack of firepower.
In opposition, Brit have been given extremly relisient units such as churchill. Low armor but a ton of life. Here again this goes against the usual design on which Panther is a central piece. Panther is use to face low/normak lifepool units with sometime aswell, a high armor value upon that (ISU-IS2).

If you start making the panther easier to access or better, Sov and USF will pay the high price. We all remember how games were unbalance late game when the panther was too good.
Today it is unbalance but because of the Brit. So my opinion is to bring Brit into the same design as other factions. Maybe give them an easy-to-use stock snare and reduce its AT firepower.

If you start making the panther easier to access or better, Sov and USF will pay the high price. We all remember how games were unbalance late game when the panther was too good.
Today it is unbalance but because of the Brit. So my opinion is to bring Brit into the same design as other factions. Maybe give them an easy-to-use stock snare and reduce its AT firepower.

Actually no.

Allied TD have been buffed so much (to deal with the KT) that axis armor advantage is quite pointless. Axis tanks would be far better of if they had less far less armor and where cheaper or had more DPS.

Su-85 chance to hit Panther at range 60 4X24=96%
Su-85 chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 220/320=67%
Su-85 vet 2 chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 220X1.3/320=90%

M36 chance to hit Panther at range 60 3.5X24=84%
M36 chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 200/320=63%
M36 AP chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 240/320=75%

Actually no.

Allied TD have been buffed so much (to deal with the KT) that axis armor advantage is quite pointless. Axis tanks would be far better of if they had less far less armor and where cheaper or had more DPS.

Su-85 chance to hit Panther at range 60 4X24=96%
Su-85 chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 220/320=67%
Su-85 vet 2 chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 220X1.3/320=90%

M36 chance to hit Panther at range 60 3.5X24=84%
M36 chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 200/320=63%
M36 AP chance to penetrate frontally Panther range 60 240/320=75%

Why are you comparing vetted Su/M36 vs non-vetted Panther?
Non-vetted TD having between 60 and 70% chance to penetrate is a good value.