2v2 wehr+okw vs double brits, replay

hi,

just had a round on minsk pocket, me wehr, buddy okw, vs two brits. 4 counternsipes without losing sniper, bren carrier almost instantly destroyed, bofors killed, mortar pit killed, then we lost to 5? 6? artillery covers and comet spam

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  0

  VS

  memento shu

  fineschmecker scratchedpaintjob

  what to do?

  by: scratchedpaintjob map: Minsk Pocket

  5

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me losing the panther and the p4 was the only point where i felt i missplayed badly,
but otherwise i'm out of ideas. if anyone could watch that replay and give some fresh ideas, i'd be thankfull

Maybe a Mod can change this Thread to Replay Reviews pls!

Maybe a Mod can change this Thread to Replay Reviews pls!

oh yeah, my bad. that game was draining my brain

Done.

You owe me 500 WeissBier, SturmPanther/Scratchedpaintjob! And no! I won't take a beaten-up Panther in kind.

I'll post thoughts shortly

Largest problem here seemed to be map control. You lacked the right side of the map almost the entire game and occasionally lost the left. Both munitions points lost as well as the eventual caches lead to an extremely large munitions income and the spamming of arty cover. As for the comets, they're to good at what they do for their price. Everyone knows that and that will be addressed in the future hopefully. For now, plant some mines, more AT guns and veto that map. Minsk pocket in my opinion is just to open and so many flanking routes.

When brits came out, community said they are well designed.

when the poll about which stuff and abilities are OP came, community said soviets.


So thanks to this great community

Mate you can't beat that kind of cancer in its current state. The Brit faction in 2v2 is the "I click and win all engagements even when I played shit but somehow made it to the lategame" faction of choice for abusers. When they hit their lategame, they simply build comets that counter everything, bounce everything and are insanely accurate, even on the move.

Then they simply drop arty cover, which doesn't require sight to hit everything you have in the vicinity of the ability. It stuns everything, kills the rest and you can drive your comets in to finish it off and cap that important vp.

It is simply cancerous cheese and horrible design on Relic's part.

I can go through this replay carefully in the next day or two. I will let you know what I see.

As a reminder, the Brit late game is incredibly powerful right now. It easily crushes any German late game if they get there. Make sure they bleed out too much to allow them to mass Comets. Also destroying a bofors, while it feels good, does very little to a player's income. Bofors are dirt cheap.

Ok I took a look at your game, here is what I saw.

You were extremely passive in the early game, for long periods multiple units stood around. You had grens, MGs, snipers and mortars at various points not doing anything. This meant the Brit players were able to fight you on even ground and defeat you piecemeal. For many portions of the game you were holding <2/3's of the map.

This is not your fault, but after the Brits already had AT guns and a boffors he went with a late luchs. This was a complete waste of time. He should have gotten a stuka right away.

You teched to T3 and then went to T4, which you used for a panther. This is fairly wasteful since the cost to tech and build a panther was equivalent to 3 or 4 stugs or 3 PIV's.

You wasted the early game pio capping power to stand at range and dual with an infantry section in a building. There was no way you could win this battle or even damage his infantry, which would get med kits as soon as he had 35 munitions and just heal up. The MP loss to you is needless and you slow down your ability to cap. With this unit fighting and your MG standing still you literally did not cap a point until the grens came out and walked across the map. Think about how much fuel and ammo you denied yourself.

The late game arty cover was painful, but you and your ally fought under it multiple times. As soon as you see it popped pull everything out, get everybody to safety. Sit just outside the circle and wait. Once it clears out you can make a push again.

Multiple times you guys cleared out most of their fighting strength and got zero caps out of it. You must be able to capitalize on his losses. The right side of the map was given over to the Brits when all you needed was one flamethrower pio and a gren to push him off.

Your MG was poor. I don't mean that as an insult only a strict evaluation. Often you would be fighting next to it and it would be facing the wrong way. On other occassions it was left well behind the lines and was not used in nearby battles. The worse case I saw was when you had a mortar set up in front of the MG to begin barrages. This makes no sense, MGs cover mortars and mortars should always be the back of the line. There is never a reason a mortar should be in front of any unit. You are paying for its range and damage, if you don't want the range just get a sniper so you can pick off infantry.

The 222 was badly handled, which was a real shame since you had spotting scopes. Try to keep it alive, it doesn't need to do much since the scopes will have it paying for itself in no time. Plus it would have shot down all those planes. It was baited into a very obvious trap when trying to hit infantry at long range, which it is very ineffective at.

Sniper play was generally good. The fact that he managed to lose 3 snipers is amazing. I don't understand why he even build the 2nd one.

The arty was a good choice, but you wasted so much time trying to kill emplacements with conventional units that you traded extremely inefficiently. If you are going to use arty don't worry as much about getting rid of emplacements. They will go very soon, 8 cps is nothing.

first of all thank you very much for taking the time and reviewing the game, much appreciated!

You were extremely passive in the early game, for long periods multiple units stood around.

yep, just looked at the replay again, there were quite a lot of moments where i could have pushed

This is not your fault, but after the Brits already had AT guns and a boffors he went with a late luchs. This was a complete waste of time. He should have gotten a stuka right away.

actually this is one of the two point where i believe you are wrong. the luchs was amazing later on and helped greatly on the left side

You teched to T3 and then went to T4, which you used for a panther. This is fairly wasteful since the cost to tech and build a panther was equivalent to 3 or 4 stugs or 3 PIV's.

i hoped to get out a second panther, as i feel that stugs and especially P4s dont cut it vs comets

You wasted the early game pio capping power to stand at range and dual with an infantry section in a building. There was no way you could win this battle

i tried to stall his costly unit with my not so costly unit, but yeah, bad idea

The late game arty cover was painful, but you and your ally fought under it multiple times. As soon as you see it popped pull everything out, get everybody to safety.

we tried to do just that, but my pak for example couldnt get out in time because arty cover was way back because of recon run

Multiple times you guys cleared out most of their fighting strength and got zero caps out of it. You must be able to capitalize on his losses.

yep, we have to improve on that

The right side of the map was given over to the Brits when all you needed was one flamethrower pio and a gren to push him off.

early on that may have been enough, but once the comets were there i had nothing to stop that. stugs get circled, p4s..., p5 still lose to comet,... i wasnt quite sure how to handle the left side at that point

Your MG was poor. I don't mean that as an insult only a strict evaluation.

no insult taken and yeah, i was to passive with the mg especially

The 222 was badly handled, which was a real shame since you had spotting scopes. Try to keep it alive, it doesn't need to do much since the scopes will have it paying for itself in no time. Plus it would have shot down all those planes. It was baited into a very obvious trap when trying to hit infantry at long range, which it is very ineffective at.

i think it wasnt vet 2 at that point, was it? try to get my 222s to vet 2 before i get them back, but yeah, i got baited and fell for it like a nub

Sniper play was generally good.

thnx

The arty was a good choice, but you wasted so much time trying to kill emplacements with conventional units that you traded extremely inefficiently. If you are going to use arty don't worry as much about getting rid of emplacements. They will go very soon, 8 cps is nothing.

actually i think we might have been better off with blitzkrieg, the arty was indeed nice but didnt save us the game, while smoke and stuka cas might have

Largest problem here seemed to be map control. You lacked the right side of the map almost the entire game and occasionally lost the left.

yeah, as i already wrote above, we were too passive

thnx for all the input, will discuss it with my mate!

Great I hope that you will easily beat this strat the next time you run into it.

On the luchs, I am not against you getting a luchs, but I wouldn't make it the first build when he clearly wants to sit still around AT guns and you cannot manuever easily. Get the Stuka first and start the bleed, pick up the Luchs next so you can push once an AT gun is taken out and bleed MP. The luchs was well used to harass units in the mid and late game. I am not questioning getting a luchs at all, just the order and timing.

For the Panther, yes it is better vs tanks, but at a huge premium. One panther is not impressive against a Comet, but 3 Stugs can beat up on them very quickly. If you are going to tech to T4 make it come earlier and try to get a little more out of the building. When you already have a Howie T4 is not very attractive since the Howie functions as both the brumbar and the Werfer.

Arty cover, as you will see in the main discussion forum, is stupid and should be changed. My feelings on it are the same, it is dumb and over performing. I understand the loss of weapon crews to it, there is nothing you can do about that (the stupid part of the ability), but a couple of times tanks were driven out and then driven back in. This is point I was referring to. I actually don't think Arty Cover lost you the game until it managed to entangle the JT, but at that point they had so many comets they would have won outright anyway.

In any case, I think if you are simply a little more aggressive and focused on taking territory you will find Brit play like this will crumple. If he does set up an emplacement serious consider avoiding the area. I like to attack just enough to force him to build another emplacement and a forward retreat point so he has sunk 1000 MP into defending a corner of the map and then I simply go elsewhere. His teammate will immediately feel the pressure when his ally can only send 500 MP against a combined +3000 MP attack.

Good luck, and if you run into a struggle again feel free to post it and I will take another look.

I was going to post on the other thread when I noticed this one.

Imageless was on the spot on the early game, right side was wide open.

also, that bofors was so easy to destroy, all you needed was a little of coordination with your teamate, you could also get a flame HT and destroy through the shot blockers or use a smoke.

I'm not even going to watch the rest. the game was lost at 15~ minutes.

On a side note: great job with your sniper!