Relic Winter Balance Preview v1.5 Update

flamer and ppsh on penal squads... Question: How is werhmacht ever gonna stand a chance on urban maps against that?

why does penals have to be one man army units just to motivate people to go T1? Just switch penal with maxims if its really all because to have a reason to go T1.

If we go for the PTRS-flavoured Penals (especially the ones you've been seeing for 1.3-1.5), their PTRS will not bet gated behind the AT grenade upgrade. This is because:
- AT Grenade upgrade is rather expensive
- PTRS Penals are already a downgrade for most part, compared to guards; we don't want to make them any worse than that.

However, from v1.6, and for a few versions, we will be trialing a PTRS-free version of Penals.

The reason locking flamers behind molotovs makes sense is so that you can't rush flamer + scout car and murder everything (without very little consequences). We'll see, though.

I'm rather pro no-ptrs for penals but rather only stickies and flamers after theirs global (stickies/molotov) upgrades is bought.

Rather have penals very good vs inf squad with some def vs tanks. it also keep gards more uniquely flavored.

Good job ! and get that patch out asap !!!

IMPROOOOOOOVE okw flak emplacemeeeent

+1

But it's out of scope so...

Can we get a list of things that are capable of being worked on?

light ve
penals
etc.

+1

But it's out of scope so...

scope ?!! who cares man

Can we get a list of things that are capable of being worked on?

light ve
penals
etc.

Light vehicles, ostheer infantry scaling, penals and some indirect fire.

Molotovs are actually really good if you use them against charging squads while you´re in cover. Just drop it in front of you cover and wait til they burn or have to fall back.


Also if you don´t charge with squads into no cover to throw them they are really good. For 15 munnition they counter garrisons and also squads in cover if you´re in mid range combat. Soviets also have oraaah. You have to use your conscripts together to help each other and molotovs are only there to counter, what conscripts alone cannot. They were never meant to be strong as other grenades. They were mean to be cheap garrison/green cover counter that is used in conjuction with oraah and other conscripts.

Molotov upgrade is too expensive. Range and throwing time is shit. Charging squads will change position because the animation is very slow and you dont need to have a good micro to counter it. So its meh anyway. Same situation with squads sitting in garrison. Too slow, easy to change position. Or throw counter grenade with folks because cons will just stay while Ivan lighting the god damn bottle. Oooorah only helps against mgs, long range units or when you need to change position very fast. Oooorah dont increase the speed of molotov animation. So, its slow, very easy to counter, expensive upgrade, poor range. 0/10 - defently sucks.

Nice new notes as per usual. Are Greyhound and Valentine out of scope for the light vehicle changes? How come the Stug 3 E gets to see changes but neither of these vehicles? Can we get Soviet Molotov wind-up and behavior the same as Volks Incendiary Nades please?

Nice new notes as per usual. Are Greyhound and Valentine out of scope for the light vehicle changes? How come the Stug 3 E gets to see changes but neither of these vehicles? Can we get Soviet Molotov wind-up and behavior the same as Volks Incendiary Nades please?

Valentine/Greyhound are, unfortunately, out of scope. The reason Stug-E got picked out was that it's OP as fuck for a certain gamemode. UP light vehicles are not a priority currently, and will be looked at when we look at underpowered commanders.

Molotov upgrade is too expensive. Range and throwing time is shit. Charging squads will change position because the animation is very slow and you dont need to have a good micro to counter it. So its meh anyway. Same situation with squads sitting in garrison. Too slow, easy to change position. Or throw counter grenade with folks because cons will just stay while Ivan lighting the god damn bottle. Oooorah only helps against mgs, long range units or when you need to change position very fast. Oooorah dont increase the speed of molotov animation. So, its slow, very easy to counter, expensive upgrade, poor range. 0/10 - defently sucks.

"Ivan, light the bottle hmg42 is packing in from of us, Ivan what is with you, are you dronken or what ? Ivan ? Ivaan !!! Jurij, quickly fire molotov, we lost the Ivan, Jurij light that vodka or I´ll send you to gulag. Jurij ?""

"Juri, I shit myself, mg42 is firing on me. Sorry maybe next time"

(Pressing retreat button while rageing internaly)


Yes I know these kinds of situations really well, but still I´ve found many uses of molotovs with ppsh conscripts if you use them in right moment. Munnition cost is fine for me (15 munny). 125 mp for unlocking is not ...

-snip -

Completly wrong. Almost in every paragraph. After 30 games on ladder with only using cons + molos I discovered The New Way with molos. But let's start

Molotov upgrade is too expensive.

125 MP and 15 fuel isn't that high. Especially for this kind of weapon. It's worth to tech 9 by 10 times. I'll explain you why.

Range and throwing time is shit.

Range is really cool when your cons hit 2nd vet + bulletin. Just look at it. http://i.imgur.com/8Pw7MBH.jpg
I'd never say it's shitty range but you propably didn't know that one because you don't even ever bought this upgrade. What about throwing time? Well, for 15 munition I'd prefer molos over overpriced volks nade which sinks your ammunition situation sooo fast.

Charging squads will change position because the animation is very slow and you dont need to have a good micro to counter it.

Still it's decent when you stay behind sandbags builded by cons because if you throw molos ahead - opponent won't use against you. Especially good versus close combat infantry like sturm pios etc. Rest of your thoughts is only a theory - in most cases you won't change your sqauds direction in time and get some damage from flames + you are forced to move when my cons are still standing and firing.

Same situation with squads sitting in garrison. Too slow, easy to change position.

It's not about wiping garrisoned units but flush 'em out. Imagine if only volks had 15 muni molos instead of their granades - OKW wouldn't be so ducked against maps with strong, stone houses at cut offs.

Or throw counter grenade with folks because cons will just stay while Ivan lighting the god damn bottle.

Well it's not nade for every case you have in this game but still - even incendiary granade is pretty easy to dodge beacuse even when it hits you - still doesn't make huge damage. But 30 ammunition which could be invested in one more mine is gone.

To sum up - this is little different type of nade with small issues but it's still useful and U would change OKW incendiary granade for molos every time I play this game.

So why grens and folks need rush cons, if thay are better in long distance ? If cons are in cover no need to rush. For 15 muni tahy are good, maybe to good, but problem are with speed of throw. If axis side have argument that ppl dodge flame nade vs garnizone units, so dodge molotovs are more easy.
How cons are cheap, same price like grens, 3 model of cons = 60 mp, 2 model of grens = 60 mp, 5 model of cons = 100 mp, 3 model of grens = 90 mp. So answer me, if cons are cheap, grens must be cheap too ?
Really good are penals with falmer, riflman with bars and nades, some part of nades, but not lolotovs.

foreal fam... if molotovs were tossed 20-25% faster there would be no problem.

flamer and ppsh on penal squads... Question: How is werhmacht ever gonna stand a chance on urban maps against that?

You don't, that's why you veto the worst maps, pray for those 3 maps that are balanced or don't play Ostheer. Even with all these changes, granted they are good and solid, Ostheer will still be on the back foot in most games right from the start.

But still, I rather play with Ostheer than with OKW, that faction feels wonky to me.

Still waiting for molotov buff, still waiting

Molotovs are alright, the only thing I'd change is the excruciatingly long throw aninmation. If it was possible I'd say make them throw molotovs 30% (or any amount that is more appropriate) faster when cons reach vet 2 or 3.

I know cons and molotovs are out of scope but maybe for the next patch

flamer and ppsh on penal squads... Question: How is werhmacht ever gonna stand a chance on urban maps against that?

Just rush T2, get a lot of pgrens, hannomag with flamers or 222's or stosstrupen with STGs. Mid distance is your friend and key to victory

OKW need disposable smoke by default or doktrinal like other armies. You cant pass through blendkorpher and it arrives too late...

And brits need snare. And usf brits and one need flamer. And vickers needs ap rounds, and mg42 needs range extension at vet1. Panther should kill inf as well as comet.

Oh wait... now all the factions are the same.

Point is, the game is asymmetric.

Molotovs are alright, the only thing I'd change is the excruciatingly long throw aninmation. If it was possible I'd say make them throw molotovs 30% (or any amount that is more appropriate) faster when cons reach vet 2 or 3.

I know cons and molotovs are out of scope but maybe for the next patch

stuka bomb probably comes faster than molotovs lol. Molotovs also seem to have a very slow velocity for whatever reason (dunno if this is actually true or not)

You don't, that's why you veto the worst maps, pray for those 3 maps that are balanced or don't play Ostheer. Even with all these changes, granted they are good and solid, Ostheer will still be on the back foot in most games right from the start.

But still, I rather play with Ostheer than with OKW, that faction feels wonky to me.

It feels weird to me too. Maybe too dependent on spammy volks. I don't know. I don't play a ton of axis in general though.

Valentine/Greyhound are, unfortunately, out of scope. The reason Stug-E got picked out was that it's OP as fuck for a certain gamemode. UP light vehicles are not a priority currently, and will be looked at when we look at underpowered commanders.

Wait so there's gonna be a patch for underpowered commanders? There's a lot to be done there lol.