Things, which should be checked

Hey, before ending of Balance Preview, I want to ask our dear modders and testers about some things, which negatively affect the current balance:

Smoke for an OKW

Easy and propably best solution to prevent spam maxims against OKW, without touching maxims itself. Still wondering why Relic didn't decide to add them as one of the basic tool (such as AT nades) at the beggining. Of course smoke could be laid down by LeIGs, but I also thought about 3rd ability for Stuka Zu Fuss to laid down smoke with little ammunition cost and not that long cooldown.

2nd thing, spawning from ambient buildings.

Dunno why it's still in the game in a current state. Strong units with most powerfull nades ig can be spawned in any neutral building (falls, stosstruppe, commandos), even in watch towers and trenches. Something should be done. Personally I'm for removing this stupied mechanic from the game, but I guess, some modders solved this problem pretty well in their mods.

Demos and other charges and explosives.

90 muni for wiping the squads. Large AoE, almost no chance to avoid it in late game, when we got other activities to do. Demos should be an ability to clear out buildings or bridges, not the super version of the mine. I think, best option has been made by miragefla in his mod.
On the other side, we got OP ability for 160 munition and it's called stuka dive bomb. Insane AoE, wihout any flares. Really?

Indirect fire like a howitzers and mortars.

Still great chance to wipe the squad in one shoot. Especially this invlolving LeIGs, PAK howies, Scotts and 120mm mortar. Any changes with that type of weapons can positevly influence on team games, where we got big artillery festival every game.

WM Panther

Any chances to be changed? Terrible accuracy on the move, terrible rof. Two StuGs do their TD's jobs muuuch better than the one Panther, and the cost is almost the same.

I think these things hurt this game the most at this moment (I haven't included changes from WBP) and need to be looked at once again. Most of them are beeing fixed in most popular balance mods like miragefla's or GGMachine's pretty well and can be easy implemented in live automatch.

And, at the end, my personal note about change of penals in WBP:

They are looking preatty neat now. Overall, I think molotov instead of oorah ability is good change, same with PTRS's. They don't need sprint to be still a strong unit, molotovs are still cheap and can be used effectivly to flush opponents out from covers. But I don't agree with flamer ability that they got. Penals can be compared to rifles, and for the same reason they shouldn't have flamers. I think most of ya can agree with this state.


Sorry for my poor english, still learning. It's not really easy in eastern Poland Kappa

Just close thread after molotovs are good. Pls Frost NotLikeThis.

@ SturmTigerFrost: dont worry! You are perfectly understandable.

@ Vasa: could you ask the Ukrainian salt miners to go on strike, please?

Sadly the majority of the changes you proposed are out of the scope of modification allowed by relic ! :/

Important thing too its AT nades needed for Tommies

Just close thread after molotovs are good. Pls Frost NotLikeThis.

But I'm pretty sure you and most of people thinks that, OKW incendiary nades are fine even if they costs almost twice as molos. And no, you are not taking them for free. Cost of getting T2 + molo is almost the same as getting the truck and battle group headquarter. Please consider it before you post something about balance, especially if OP is more experienced Kappa

But I'm pretty sure you and most of people thinks that, OKW incendiary nades are fine even if they costs almost twice as molos. And no, you are not taking them for free. Cost of getting T2 + molo is almost the same as getting the truck and battle group headquarter. Please consider it before you post something about balance, especially if OP is more experienced Kappa

No, Vasa thinks kinda the opposite as a Soviet fanboy, you misunderstood his message

Sadly the majority of the changes you proposed are out of the scope of modification allowed by relic ! :/

Important thing too its AT nades needed for Tommies

Is this sarcasm or real, not sure tbh
And I agree with AT nades for Tommies

Smoke for an OKW
Easy and propably best solution to prevent spam maxims against OKW, without touching maxims itself. Still wondering why Relic didn't decide to add them as one of the basic tool (such as AT nades) at the beggining. Of course smoke could be laid down by LeIGs, but I also thought about 3rd ability for Stuka Zu Fuss to laid down smoke with little ammunition cost and not that long cooldown.

I never understood why Sturmpioneers didn't just get Blendkorper's, giving the ability to flush out buildings and mask enemy units.

I never understood why Sturmpioneers didn't just get Blendkorper's, giving the ability to flush out buildings and mask enemy units.

Because they have no more room for anymore Abilities anymore.

All these changes would improve gameplay. I say do it.

Because they have no more room for anymore Abilities anymore.

But they already have it, it's just locked behind Vet 4.

@ SturmTigerFrost: dont worry! You are perfectly understandable.

@ Vasa: could you ask the Ukrainian salt miners to go on strike, please?

DO whanna say taht molotovs are fine ? So pls.

But I'm pretty sure you and most of people thinks that, OKW incendiary nades are fine even if they costs almost twice as molos. And no, you are not taking them for free. Cost of getting T2 + molo is almost the same as getting the truck and battle group headquarter. Please consider it before you post something about balance, especially if OP is more experienced Kappa

I dont say that thay are fine in general, problem are how fast you throw themm adn range. Lets image if ST ammo hit not fast like now, but like 10 sec. This game, is game of abuse, if somthing are broken or good, top players use them, i see penals guard spam, isee stuka and com panther, but i dont see molotovs. So i feel thay are not fine.

I dont say that thay are fine in general, problem are how fast you throw themm adn range. Lets image if ST ammo hit not fast like now, but like 10 sec. This game, is game of abuse, if somthing are broken or good, top players use them, i see penals guard spam, isee stuka and com panther, but i dont see molotovs. So i feel thay are not fine.

Umm, throwing range is pretty the same, not sure how it's works with vets. And I think it's fine when molotovs fly like 2 seconds more, finnaly they are two times cheaper arent they? I personally use it all the time, even if build only 2 cons - still it's preatty neat option to prevent camping in buildings.

And I can agree with one point - top players like to abuse broken things to win but I wouldn't call stuka as normal thing in 1v1. It's in the same spot as molotov - it's too fine to be used too often. Command Panther is ofc op for their 50% more damage from mark target, it's different thing. Penals and guards are ofc op, you know that well.

I want to add two point to my list: Mark target from Command Panther and its 50% damage bonus and double shots from things like PaK40, Pershing, ISU etc. I hope you are getting the point

All of the topics mentioned in the OP (and more) have been discussed as high-priority things to solve. Unfortunately most of the things you have described are way-out-of scope.

It may seem like a bummer that the scope is restricted, and that's crippling the speed at which we are allowed to tackle issues. On the other hand, fixing stuff from the early game and moving to late-game will help us make better decisions, without breaking the game too much with each patch.

On the other hand, if there's one item on the list that's closest to the things we've been able to modify so far that's infiltration unit cheese. It's up to the community to cheese these units, provide replays and make enough fuss for us to be able to even apply some bandaid fix (i.e., even if we can't limit building spawning, we might be allowed to sanitize the call-in prices to make that expensive).

So, help us out, and we'll do what we can to fix this.

Well, it shouldn't be really a problem. Every third replay has clip when those cheesy duckers spawn somewhere near the HQ, kill last man in squad on retrat, throw bundle and steal the mortar/sherman/HMG or whatever you like.

Well, it shouldn't be really a problem. Every third replay has clip when those cheesy duckers spawn somewhere near the HQ, kill last man in squad on retrat, throw bundle and steal the mortar/sherman/HMG or whatever you like.

Agreed.

However, if people could prove that WBP makes infiltration cheese even worse than before, that would be a very good starting point to expand the scope.

The question for Relic would otherwise be "why change this -now- and lose focus, when we can get more feedback and change it at a later patch?". Or, otherwise; why should this issue be the one that's prioritised over the others.

I see no contradiction to fix both game breaking problems in one patch. I doubt in reliability of our dear company an their sponsors and publishers. They don't even want to show us that they care about this game anymore. So pathetic

I wanna White phosphorus on LEIG for small amount ammo and damage buildings faster as PAK Howi.

Make Rakketen good AT or change it for PAK

Flack eplacemaent - to be usefull.

Other stuff is OK

also ghost wire, sandbag what not.