Conscripts and Grenadiers

here are my valuable opinion. conscripts are good because they have six men and rifles, but the grenadiers are good too, because they have machine guns at upgrade (60 munitoin)!

but if u think about it the conscriptions have mololotovs and ooray to run up to german machine guners while granediers only have rifle gernade.

conclusion: conscript need nerf becuz grenadier dont have ooray

Sometimes it feels like people want every unit to be exactly the same as the opposing team's equivalent unit. That would make for a rather boring game - why not just play mirror matches if that's how you want it?

Oh, really now? since you're such a pro player. How should I fight vet 2 grens squads with lmg42 and pgrens? I keep my conscripts support and they still drop like flies even when vet3. Not to mention they carry around mosin nagants in 1944, they should have dp28 and other automatic weapons.

Use covers, swarm in numbers, rain molotov, not difficult right?

I spam Volks in COH1 while everyone saying they are trash

AT nades are much better because they come on a more mobile platform and have a much shorter animation time. Also, Soviets float ammo all the time and start with 30 more fuel. Grenadiers pretty much cannot faust any well-microed vehicle outside of ambushes. Conscripts can easilt Ooorah, run up to anything, nade it, and run with 2-3 men. Working as intended.

Molotovs and riflenades are completely different abilities; riflenades punish sitting around in cover/buildings, molotovs are used to break a defensive line and/or punish the opponent's lack of micro. Riflenades are easy to dodge if you pay a modicum of attention; Molotovs are best used vs weapons teams.

LMG grens beat vanilla conscripts, but with doctrine upgrades conscripts handily slaughter Grens. It's called assymetric balance and is completely normal.

In my experience, whoever micros their units best wins in 1v1 fights. Get them in cover, watch for grenades, keep your units together and you're good to go. If he got LMGs, it means his FHT is delayed, so get Maxims/snipers/M3s and punish him. This game doesn't happen in a vacuum.

Use covers, swarm in numbers, rain molotov, not difficult right?

I spam Volks in COH1 while everyone saying they are trash

Volks In coh1 were not bad at all, I don't know where that came from. Not only that Molotovs are easy to avoid and in order to throw them the squad will have to move closer, in the process you will lose 1-2 men and if the grens have mg42s don't even try it. cover is nice but you wont always have it and even when in cover they still do quite a but of damage.

con does need a DP-28 upgrade after soviet build T3 or T4 though....well, after the HTD nerf.

totally disagree about the AT nade taking out light vehicles. it's good enough as is. engine damage is a fantastic benefit!

overall this thread is bunk. conscripts and grenadiers are different for a reason. they are balanced. vet3 conscripts are beastly and are easier to vet because you have better survivability with 6 models vs. 4 for the grens.

con does need a DP-28 upgrade after soviet build T3 or T4 though....well, after the HTD nerf.

Why?

Just 'cus? "Wouldn't it be cool if..."?

If you love your Conscripts so much, use a doctrine that compliments them. If they're not important enough to you to influence your doctrine, then that's your choice.

Conscripts don't need any improvements as is. Putting a DP-28 on them just overshadows Guards Rifles massively.

you do not get guards for the d p 28 you get them for the p t r s and the button not the actual light machine gun

A lot of soviet hate in this thread. =/

CoZaK you bring up some good points and as you say with out htd and pssh conscripts are a waste of resources especially in the late game unless you just need units for capping.

I do agree that conscripts and grens aren't balanced for a reason; grens already have more versatility while conscripts should feel like clearly the more cost effective unit. Conscripts squads might have more men but squad wise there's no reason for a german player to have less squads than the soviet. Tech wise the Soviets only have 2 "tiers" and while it might seem like they're less forced to plop down every tech building in the game the Germans don't have to either. One could even argue that the Soviets are required to get molotovs and anti tank grenades to stay competitive which are the equivalent to German teching.

I'm probably just theory crafting because we all know things work out differently in the actual game but it costs the soviets (molotovs and at grenades included) 1240manpower/320fuel vs 1120manpower/190fuel for the Germans to get all 4 of their tech buildings out so the Soviets are clearly not intended to build all of their tech buildings just two of them, and substitute their lack of versatility due to the lack of units with their commander abilities. I'm posting this last part not to change the subject but to keep in mind that both Grenadiers and Conscripts should fit into the bigger picture and complement both armies and not just the initial 1v1s. Sure a Soviet might be boosting his Conscripts usefulness with the HTD commanders, but he's sacrificing the versatility of the rest of his army by not having the ability to call some of the unit call ins the Soviets have over their German counterparts.

They need something thats not doctrinal because as it stands they're just sacks of meat waiting to be dropped.

Why?

Just 'cus? "Wouldn't it be cool if..."?

If you love your Conscripts so much, use a doctrine that compliments them. If they're not important enough to you to influence your doctrine, then that's your choice.

Conscripts don't need any improvements as is. Putting a DP-28 on them just overshadows Guards Rifles massively.

it's always a joy for watching how reich fanbois try every effort on the forum to twist and exaggerate the faction that he never played once.

Do ostheer needs anything to unlock the LMG42 LMG for grenadier which doubles their DPS?

Do PG comes with a doctrine unit that requires precious doctrine point to unlock?

Nope, my modest suggestion is unlock DP28 while you builds T3 or T4 building which already in the med game, compare to T1 access to LMG42 is that really game breaking?

I love the double standards from those dedicate reich fanboys~

ok i jus got don playing bot match
i thnk conscription suck and need buff compare to german grans
they suck. they have no gernade only if u upgrade!!

Use covers, swarm in numbers, rain molotov, not difficult right?

I spam Volks in COH1 while everyone saying they are trash

I disagree.

Esp with medic bunkers and FTF, volks are awesome

none saying Grenedier is trash......OMG..

I'm still baffled by the people saying Conscripts are useless without the overpowered HtD and the overly cheap PPSh upgrade. I regularily get a few squads to vet 2-3 even without making them into cheaper Shock Troops with AT nades and a Hussein Bolt button. They are the most versatile infantry in the game and only become useless if you let your opponent spam Ostwinds or something. I find that my Grenadiers fall out much, much more than my scripts, unless I've been lucky and got them Vet 2 early, and I'm saying that as someone who plays both factions almost equally.

I'm still baffled by the people saying Conscripts are useless without the overpowered HtD and the overly cheap PPSh upgrade. I regularily get a few squads to vet 2-3 even without making them into cheaper Shock Troops with AT nades and a Hussein Bolt button. They are the most versatile infantry in the game and only become useless if you let your opponent spam Ostwinds or something. I find that my Grenadiers fall out much, much more than my scripts, unless I've been lucky and got them Vet 2 early, and I'm saying that as someone who plays both factions almost equally.

Give me the name of one unit in coh2 that still isn't good at vet 3? The benefits of veterancy in this game are astronomical; I've even seen a vet 3 German scout car charge up to a t34 and win.
If you're playing Germans and struggling to counter non HTD conscripts than you're being clearly outplayed. I mean most Germans barely even build the MG42 anymore as they'd rather just counter conscripts with grenadiers followed by a tech to a flame ht. I do agree though that HTD needs to be looked into and maybe given a munition cost but in exchange made less susceptible to rifle grenades.

The only problem with HtD is the stacking multiplyer with cover, once that is sorted it should be a good and balanced ability.

My personal experiance with non HtD/ppsh cons is thus, Early game it seems rather blanaced, the 12% damage diffrence the op claims seems ot be negligable, my concerns hit in the mid game where you can arm grens with lmg42s without hurting your muni that much,
after that happens.... conscripts just suck and can not compete agasint them unless they get lucky and can pick up a flamethrower or an LMG42 of there own, as such i really really like hte idea of giving the option of upgrading cons with 2 dp 28s for 60 munis,(something to help the muni floating of soviets early and midgame)

you do not get guards for the d p 28 you get them for the p t r s and the button not the actual light machine gun

You actually need the DP to use the button ability.

If you are trying to use Cons to beat LMG Grens, you are doing it wrong.

Completely justified in cost differential and Sovs ubiquitous Doctrine infantry options.

Its really that simple.

/Thread.