The abysmal state of the KV1

I was confronted with a player today that used the KV1. I was, at the same time, confronted with the now pretty established fact that the KV1 is lackluster and tops the list of units that simply aren´t worth it.

The KV1 needs a lot of work:

- It is in a pretty useless doctrine, but is itself the most useless thing in the doctrine. This is worrying.

- It has only 800 hp, although being a heavy tank. The pershing has the same issue, yet has a very good gun and good mobility. The KV1 has neither.

- It can't reliably kill infantry or any kind of armor apart from light vehicles, Ostheer Panzer IV below vet 2, Stug without target weak point.

- It's veterancy abilities do not come in line with its intended role: a heavy breakthrough tank.


Conclusion: The KV1 lacks identity. It isn't good vs infantry, it isn't good versus armor. It needs to be good at either one of those things. This iconic WW2 tank, which stupefied the Wehrmacht when they moved into the Soviet Union, is nothing but a laughable driving heap of wasted resources at this point.

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The KV1 needs a lot of work:

coh2 in general, needs a lot of work

its almost as bad as ost , almost.

its almost as bad as ost , almost.

Not true. Ost works when you have a plan and micro it well enough. KV-1s never work.

Yes it needs changes.

Buff it, or add vet/normal abilities or both. Dug in mode is the best candidate.



Also don't forget about the b4 ...

Needs some work and I believe it should very much be a meatshield tank. I'll plug my suggestions here:

-Veterancy 2 Horizontal Traverse Speed removed. Replaced by an aura that boosts nearby infantry, increasing accuracy by 10% while reducing received accuracy and cooldowns by 10%. 25 meter radius.
-Veterancy 3 Reload modifier removed.
-Veterancy 3 Speed and rotation modifier from 1.2 to 1.15.
-Veterancy 3 allows the KV-1 to repair 1.25 health every second when out of combat and increase the tank's health by 160.
-Health from 800 to 960
-Vet 1 to "Defense Mode" from "Capture Point". Defense mode halts all movement of the tank in exchange for 0.8 recieved damage and lowers reload speed by 0.85.

Now you have a very tanky vehicle. It doesn't kill much at all, but it's a very annoying meatshield to deal with. The aura might be too much, but it could be a timed ability. I don't think it would need limits as you would feed TDs XP, though Mother Russia could use some looking at. It's like Valiant Assault, but way better since you get an armour bonus.

Veterancy requirements might also need to be increased with these changes.

Needs some work and I believe it should very much be a meatshield tank. I'll plug my suggestions here:

-Veterancy 2 Horizontal Traverse Speed removed. Replaced by an aura that boosts nearby infantry, increasing accuracy by 10% while reducing received accuracy and cooldowns by 10%. 25 meter radius.
-Veterancy 3 Reload modifier removed.
-Veterancy 3 Speed and rotation modifier from 1.2 to 1.15.
-Veterancy 3 allows the KV-1 to repair 1.25 health every second when out of combat and increase the tank's health by 160.
-Health from 800 to 960
-Vet 1 to "Defense Mode" from "Capture Point". Defense mode halts all movement of the tank in exchange for 0.8 recieved damage and lowers reload speed by 0.85.

Now you have a very tanky vehicle. It doesn't kill much at all, but it's a very annoying meatshield to deal with. The aura might be too much, but it could be a timed ability. I don't think it would need limits as you would feed TDs XP, though Mother Russia could use some looking at. It's like Valiant Assault, but way better since you get an armour bonus.

Veterancy requirements might also need to be increased with these changes.

perfect

It's not that the KV1 is bad, is that everything else axis have is too good, and the supporting units of soviets suck ass.

If the KV1 came paired with guards the commander would be amazing.

Also they work REALLY well if the enemy doesn't invest too much on tech and spam pumas/ostwinds/P4s, and since shreck blobs are no longer a thing, they can be relatively useful against infantry.

Another thing to remember is that KV1s are defensive tanks, don't count on them for assaults, for that you gonna need T34s.

-Health from 800 to 960

Now you have a very tanky vehicle.

Could be 1040 health too. Much simpler and accomplishes the same goal without attaching new abilities and gimmicks.

Could be 1040 health too. Much simpler and accomplishes the same goal without attaching new abilities and gimmicks.

Things is, all the KV-1's veterancy is offensive in nature for a unit that should be in the role of a meatshield/line anchor. Does it really need two hits of main gun reload aka T-34 veterancy clone?

And it's not that pricey so 1040hp might be too much off the bat.

The Churchill gets mainly offensive bonuses as well. More importantly the Churchill gains no defensive or health bonuses with its vet. It's ability to act as a meatshield is still quite solid.

Although I guess it does have that weird vet 3 engine self-repair thing.

But the whole pseudo-command tank aura would be such a massive change to the unit, not to mention the aura itself would have crazy impact on infantry combat. The impact on team games I won't even bother to get into either. I mean, the B-4 commander was already a pretty troll commander in team games to begin with.

A vet 1 hulldown wouldn't be too crazy though. But IMO vet 1 abilities need to set aside altogether. Crams the pacing of vet bonuses into only 2 steps.

Counter attack is definetly not useless doctrine.
Personally I like it a lot.

KV-1 is kinda broken with it's veterancy but I still like to spam them
Despite this weird veterancy, it's sometimes useful to swarm enemy with 3 of them, get behind and kill anything.

I wouldn't mess with any auras, especially like this. We have something similar called hull down and it's already not used almost at all.

Needs some work and I believe it should very much be a meatshield tank. I'll plug my suggestions here:

-Veterancy 2 Horizontal Traverse Speed removed. Replaced by an aura that boosts nearby infantry, increasing accuracy by 10% while reducing received accuracy and cooldowns by 10%. 25 meter radius.
-Veterancy 3 Reload modifier removed.
-Veterancy 3 Speed and rotation modifier from 1.2 to 1.15.
-Veterancy 3 allows the KV-1 to repair 1.25 health every second when out of combat and increase the tank's health by 160.
-Health from 800 to 960
-Vet 1 to "Defense Mode" from "Capture Point". Defense mode halts all movement of the tank in exchange for 0.8 recieved damage and lowers reload speed by 0.85.

Now you have a very tanky vehicle. It doesn't kill much at all, but it's a very annoying meatshield to deal with. The aura might be too much, but it could be a timed ability. I don't think it would need limits as you would feed TDs XP, though Mother Russia could use some looking at. It's like Valiant Assault, but way better since you get an armour bonus.

Veterancy requirements might also need to be increased with these changes.

I think giving the KV1 a command tank style aura is pretty ridiculous and unnecessary. The implication it could have on allied inf vs axis inf matchup could be quite drastic even if the bonus is quite small. Cheap soviet inf+ aura buff could see them walking over germans who are arguably weaker in this department already, not to mention that wher often has to crutch on the command tank just to remain on par.

I like your other suggestions though, however I would like its combat stats buffed a little so it can be meatshield whilst still being decent in battles. A accuracy increase to its main gun would be nice as well as better hull and coax mgs like the t34s. GG's also mod made a good change by putting the kv1 in soviet t4.

It's not that the KV1 is bad, is that everything else axis have is too good, and the supporting units of soviets suck ass.

I fear you're missing the point here. The thing with the KV1 is the same thing that the Ostheer Panther has for example. Too expensive for what it does and too bad at what it needs to do. This has nothing to do with everything else Axis have being too good. Currently Allies are more powerful than Axis in 1v1 and 2v2 especially.

Counter attack is definetly not useless doctrine.
Personally I like it a lot.

KV-1 is kinda broken with it's veterancy but I still like to spam them
Despite this weird veterancy, it's sometimes useful to swarm enemy with 3 of them, get behind and kill anything.

I wouldn't mess with any auras, especially like this. We have something similar called hull down and it's already not used almost at all.

I played vs a player that used KV1 swarms in combination with a B4. I simply stuka'd the b4 and had 2 panzergrenadier squads with panzerschrecks and a Panther. The KV1s couldn't do anything against it. When I got my Elefant, it was hilarious.

I played vs a player that used KV1 swarms in combination with a B4. I simply stuka'd the b4 and had 2 panzergrenadier squads with panzerschrecks and a Panther. The KV1s couldn't do anything against it. When I got my Elefant, it was hilarious.

No one picks ML20 or B4 if enemy has dive bomb.
Obvious misteake.

I rather fight with Ele than Panther with KV1s

But it doesn't prove anything. I mean, I could say that someone uses Luchs agasint double Guards behind green cover. Does it make Luchs bad? No.

Same here (tho KV1 is bad) in this situation, he simply made wrong choices by spamming KV1s.

Counter attack is definitely not useless doctrine.
Personally I like it a lot.

This!


I guess that i am one of few that think that this commander is very good. With counter attack tactics i got in to 100 for SU, i won against top 50 players in 4-5 games with this commander.

- Shocktroops, very good in some maps, if you are using them right.
- For the fatherland, imo very good. It can decide many skirmishes and then the game. Cons are like on ecstacy with it
- Recon plain, always good to have.
- B4, this is the only thing i dont use (yet).
- KV1, good but as you all said, it could be better. One thing that is very good about it is that you dont have to tech to T4, T3 plus 2 KV1s is very good.

Don't get me wrong, i will welcome every buff that the KV1 gets

Giving it a buff would be a good idea, but is it really with a doctrine that has a artillery piece, shock troops, OP ability that basically gives you free map control cuz of how insane your infantry becomes?

Also if you buff it, nerf for mother russia and limit kv1 to one

This!


I guess that i am one of few that think that this commander is very good. With counter attack tactics i got in to 100 for SU, i won against top 50 players in 4-5 games with this commander.

- Shocktroops, very good in some maps, if you are using them right.
- For the fatherland, imo very good. It can decide many skirmishes and then the game. Cons are like on ecstacy with it
- Recon plain, always good to have.
- B4, this is the only thing i dont use (yet).
- KV1, good but as you all said, it could be better. One thing that is very good about it is that you dont have to tech to T4, T3 plus 2 KV1s is very good.

Don't get me wrong, i will welcome every buff that the KV1 gets

You better start using it

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No one picks ML20 or B4 if enemy has dive bomb.
Obvious misteake.

I rather fight with Ele than Panther with KV1s

But it doesn't prove anything. I mean, I could say that someone uses Luchs agasint double Guards behind green cover. Does it make Luchs bad? No.

Same here (tho KV1 is bad) in this situation, he simply made wrong choices by spamming KV1s.

But then you can pretty much never use it in 2v2 and up, since 99% of the time there will be a stuka dive bomb available.

I understand your point with the luchs and the guards, but the KV1 is bad lol. It can't do anything well. If you need more than 2 of them to even be effective, that is pretty sad..