CoH 2 the Single Player What the ...

So I been playing some CoH2 campaign for the past few days in my free time and it makes me unhappy so far.. Even makes me wonna stop playing it at all.. :/

First mission the the current ( #7 ) all I see is Russian soldiers been shot, killed, left behind and executed by the officers for different reasons..
Like the all patriotic war was thought in fear of been shot by our own people.
Not a single act of heroism was shown at all..

Who paid for this propaganda.. ?

What the Hell ?!?! really ??!
I know there were plenty of stuff when thousands of soldiers were left and surround by Germans . People were shot and yes there was order #227 . But people fought for their motherland !!! There were alot of heroism and patriotism! It was war to survive from German invaders ..

I suppose if you grew up in Russia it's easy to see why you feel that way, Sturmovik.

My POV is so completely different as a Westerner, I'm comfortable with it. In fact, as an Englishman of 3rd Generation Polish descent, I'm extremely comfortable with the depiction of the Soviet Union.

unfortunately the soviet union (USSR) ran a very messy ship leaving alot of shit in there wake. (there is a reason alot of people didn't like them.) doing alot of things because they could get away with it. that is after all what happens when you kill all your experienced troops and officers before the war.

you have to dig around to find out what really happen in ww2 you have dig thru sources and documents. basically all you can rely on is that everything they taught you in school is either a lie or not the complete truth. (often times a complete lie.) you'll find that all nations had there hand in that cookie jar on most occasions.

The campaign is very enjoyable, but it's a sad and grossly inaccurate view of reality.

basically all you can rely on is that everything they taught you in school is either a lie or not the complete truth. (often times a complete lie.) you'll find that all nations had there hand in that cookie jar on most occasions.

Of all people Americans have the most warped view of the Soviet role in WWII. I can only assume that most Americans get their WWII history from movies like Enemy at the Gates.

Of all people Americans have the most warped view of the Soviet role in WWII. I can only assume that most Americans get their WWII history from movies like Enemy at the Gates.

Pretty much. I think that movie was Relic's go-to source on World War II history for this game. And they're not even American...

play the campaign until the end!!! .The game criticizes the commanders of the soviet union and stalin ,but the end really honors the soviet soldiers with theitr "heroism". In war is no real heroism.innocent people were killed. I do not want to offend russians.

The soviet soldiers = "heroes"
a lot of soviet commanders = stupid,inhuman

^ What he said. Complete the game first.

Of all people Americans have the most warped view of the Soviet role in WWII.

I'm not sure about the campaign (I haven't played it), but one of the things I like about this game in general is that its not claiming that the Americans won the war with the invasion of Europe (which a lot of people believe, not just Americans).

As for the campaign, although I haven't played it myself, I think it would be quite hard to not cast the Soviets in at least a partially negative manner, without appearing completely biased.

i agree with sturmovik the main campaign simply put is a steaming pile of manure, it does not convey heroism in any way. and i don't think it was biased history or misinformation it was plain laziness and what i suppose lack of funding. vcoh have some nice stories even the expansions where you play as German have a heroic feel to it.

this one was more focused in war sucks and its horrible. still is not like heroes don't shine in those situations. the first mission really kills my suspension of disbelief. the soldiers charging the mgs and dying like they where made of paper. was comical at best. and did not reflect the idea of a forced push trough harsh conditions.

a simple non playable squad of conscrpits pinned by an mg while the commander voice yells at you to hurry and flank the mg because its shooting the other squad, would have reflected more the sacrifice of the soldiers and would give you an in game reason to act( you have to charge because if the squad dies you will be next) and an out game reason (the life of the allied conscripts you would not like to loose)

order 227 could be simple made to be a map where you are faced by 2 enemies: on one end the objective the German enemy. on the other the nkvd(spelled like that?) that slowly moves forward with its own army. of mgs that progressively move forward each certain amount of minutes mowing down your own troops if you don't move forward leaving you with no choice but to progress.

hell i just thought this things out as i typed and i think they would be better than the actual campaign. but that is just my opinion.

hell a tank battle where you begin with a bunch of tanks half of them with their engine damaged, you are forced to ram using your good tanks because its the only way to outmaneuver the opponents. i don't know much about history or if those scenarios would have made sense. but could not they think of something better trough game-play?

vcoh have some nice stories even the expansions where you play as German have a heroic feel to it.

that was the thing which i hate about coh 1 .When you play the wehrmacht and have a heroic feel to it .In my opinion that is simply bullshit.The wehrmach killed a lot of innocent people .16 year old children were 1945 in the wehrmacht.The commanders of the wehrmacht killed themselves.A game which deals with the ww2 schould not express heroism, but i can understand Sturmovik.

that was the thing which i hate about coh 1 .When you play the wehrmacht and have a heroic feel to it .In my opinion that is simply bullshit.The wehrmach killed a lot of innocent people .16 year old children were 1945 in the wehrmacht.The commanders of the wehrmacht killed themselves.A game which deals with the ww2 schould not express heroism, but i can understand Sturmovik.

denying the fact that they died for what they believed in does not make them less heroes. nor their sacrifice less heroic. this is not power rangers. were the foot soldier is a mindless minion (evil by nature) they where people fighting for their country and family just as american, Japanese, Russian, French, British, and many others did.

funny german soldiers are also horrified of the things that happened during the war.

do you know what is cognitive dissonance? (humans lie to themselves to cope with certain situations)

http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/11ooq7/german_pows_being_forced_to_watch_reports_of_the/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Namering_exhumed_bodies_of_SS_murdered_slave_workers_ww2-183.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NaziConcentrationCamp.gif

Yup. My Great Grandfather was in the 89th Infantry. He isn't in the Buchenwald picture you put up, but he's in a bulk of other ones. He and several others had taken the locals rounded up by the MPs through the camp.
There's one picture in particular, with him in it, that always gets me. He's standing in front of a pile of bodies, one arm across his chest, and a hand over his mouth. The photo was a little grainy, but one could easily see the look of horror and disgust in his eyes. He was only 19 when they found Ordrhuf. That ornery bugger actually lied about his age to get in and fight in the war.
Walked around with shrapnel in his belly for the rest of his life, and waited until my mom went in the German Exchange program and visited the camps for herself before he ever told her a thing about the war. Sadly, I never got to really know my Opa. He died from lung cancer shortly after I was born.

My mom's side has a lot of roots in Austria and Germany, and while my grandpa came to America (he was a Jew, he didn't much wanna hang around) he had many friends who stayed behind and faced the same kinda dissonance. The propaganda was VERY strong that this rapacious horde of Americans was going to slaughter every man woman and child and burn their cities to the ground, so when they got captured and treated like, you know, people, it lead to a lot of them going 'oh, so my government is evil and full of shit huh'.
He once told me about a friend stationed near the fighting who got captured, he tried to kill himself twice right at the start because he was sure he'd be tortured, but by the end of his time he actually bonded with one of the MPs. They connected on the base level of 'look I don't want to hurt anyone I just thought I was fighting for my people', they even kept in touch after the war and visited a few times.

don't take this stories as truth since they come from the internet. that is your call. but good and bad things happen to people. and they are not all bad. and company of heroes is not a game about soldiers being bad. is about the heroes that fought for their beliefs.

Perhaps I should have played to the end 1st..
But I didn't grew up in Russia and I think I have good well rounded knowledge of world war history . Anyhow I knew this would be a useless topic as alot of people have just their view of history based on the country were they grew up and its not always the right one.

Well, the character who drives the story constantly goes on about the bravery and heroism of the Soviet soldiers.

I'm not sure how much history you've read of the Stalin years but there certainly were a lot of horrible things that went on in and out of the war.

I know alot about what Stalin did and those years.. after all Im the one who made this video as well..

about him...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oVSp0ULcrs

i am more sad about de game play not delivering a good story.



the flash game is here
http://www.necessarygames.com/my-games/loneliness/flash

that was the thing which i hate about coh 1 .When you play the wehrmacht and have a heroic feel to it .In my opinion that is simply bullshit.The wehrmach killed a lot of innocent people .16 year old children were 1945 in the wehrmacht.The commanders of the wehrmacht killed themselves.A game which deals with the ww2 schould not express heroism, but i can understand Sturmovik.

He was referring to the Russians/Soviets to be heroic instead of just you all die, advance or i kill you/ no heroes here logic anyway Sir. Not the Germans.

The campaign is very enjoyable, but it's a sad and grossly inaccurate view of reality.



Of all people Americans have the most warped view of the Soviet role in WWII. I can only assume that most Americans get their WWII history from movies like Enemy at the Gates.

i have never watched those movies the only war movie ive ever watched was band of brothers (that never was used to form my opinion just for entertainment.) war movies tbh even documentrys are mostly propaganda. i wish i could say it was accurate but there not. (history channel anyone.)

What do you mean it shows no heroism?

To me it shows the heroism of the common Soviet soldier extremely well, while highlighting the cruelty of the upper echelons of the Soviet command structure - which did, in fact, exist and was proliferant.

I can only assume that most Americans get their WWII history from movies like Enemy at the Gates.

The statement is about as well founded as a house built on sand.

That said, Americans do have a warped perception of history. So does every single other country. The only ones you can look at for unbiased views are the ones that remained neutral during the war.

Truth of it is, Soviet commanders were cruel, wasted soldiers due to their own misunderstanding of warfare and incompetency.

And the other side of it is, the common man on the ground for both Germans and Soviets are all heroes in their own way. Both sides were filled with conscripts that had guns pointed at their backs and were forced to fight one another, both sides had brave men that committed acts of heroism as their own sides saw it, and both sides suffered the horrible conditions of the Eastern Front.

I don't see why any of us feel the need to glorify what happened there. It was a massacre for everybody involved, through and through, millions of which were unwilling participants.

The campaign is utter shit.

The thematics are difficult - 2 evil factions warring one another, you dont want to be on either side. Then you are just given the russians, no possibility to choose side, thats not very good.

-->Since the only plot in the whole game is following through the eastern front battles in ww2, would be nice to see it from both fronts. And there was plenty of shit on both sides too. How about a little alternal history and possibility of winning ww2 as germans and then in final cut scene some grim scene of " third reich peace".

I like the role of small time player in a bigger army, but how about a little roleplaying and being able to choose if im good or evil? Helping the local civilians etc deciding to save the partizans against a prime-commandment etc. Or if you go down the line on being evil there should be civilians shot and corpses of civilians everywhere, disease piles of the dead etc. Now youre only told in numbers how many people died in the battles. These order 227s etc whatever mainly feel pathetic when all the really evil stuff isnt even mentioned.

--> thematically I wouldve prefered someting like you had in single player campaign of Myth the fallen lords - a really desperate journal of the crazy stuff going on and then some glimmers of hope. And the game should be a lot more gruesome at least on text since now you get a surface-polished account on what happened in the war. For most europeans (excluding the russians) this game is a very badly simplified story of the eastern front (we read european history in school so we know it pretty well).

Wasnt really expecting anything much related to story-telling, but this game did manage to bring out a campaign that belongs to the nineties --> no interesting characters, no character-relations, no villains, no continuum through campaign (at the very least vet on surviving units hellou??), no plot-twisters (well without a plot its hard), no between mission company set-up, no nothing!!! Only advancement on "plot" is on terrible cut scenes with bad voice-acting.
--> would it ever have been easier to set up a mission-briefing between missions wehre you could talk to troops, play some war-time dice, decide which units to get in next missions, read a little backgrounds, receive a letter from home etc.. Wouldve built up some atmosphere to start in rubble-tents with misery everywhere and ending up in a proper war camp with exhilirated people at the gates of Berlin..

Then the missions... Way too easy and no chance to lose. Only bonus-objectives are "destroy radar" and you get a "badge", wow so interesting. How about a school-kid running to camp telling theres a long coat axis officer kidnapping the school-girls. How about for reward them showing you to a hidden cache of weapons, whatever anything! Warmap with locations on which mission to choose next? .Wheres the base-to-base battle? People love building bunkers and base-defences then advancing on enemy base like regular rts. This game doesnt even show the normal online play on campaign. Only have to look at the OTHER RTS games to see what they did and copy it, but no if you dont want to make an interesting game, no one is forcing you...

The campaigns on original coh were already bad, this was utter horse-dung, worst campaign ive played in a long time. I came up with this many ideas to make it better in 5 mins... People dont come online when the single player is dung so they never even get to see the really awesome feature - the online part. They will not buy a coh3 based on this campaign.

-a disgruntled fan

i am more sad about de game play not delivering a good story.



the flash game is here
http://www.necessarygames.com/my-games/loneliness/flash

Considering they brought up the video regarding perfect imbalance, I have little faith to trust anything they've got to say regarding anything comes to general game development. Seriously, that video about perfect imbalance just upset me.

The developers, the players & the reflection of balance patch changes and etc, are complete contradiction to what they say. They aren't exactly the most trusted source when it comes to game development, but this is just my personal opinion.