Buff useless soviet units

Reposting this in the correct section, after a compstomper moderator (who thinks that the molotov and 82mm mortar is fine) locked and suggest it.



I'm so tired of how boring soviets have become over the time and limited to only one way "in" during the game ( I'm talking about 1v1).

This is all because so many units have been rendered useless over time, that there only 3 viable options as soviet :
-Penals+ Guards
-2 engineer+3 cons with guard
-Partisans

And what I mean by useless units/ability:

-82mm mortar
-CONSCRIPTS
-Clown car
-Zis AT gun
-Guards button
-Maxim
-SU 152
-Molotov
-PTRS gun


At least make the guards button somewhat good, no need to nerf it death like it is now.
All it takes is to move slightly behind and button is broken.
Smoke? broken.

On top of this it takes like 12 PTRS shells to destroy a Luch2? ffs, guards isn't a unit I plan on spamming so how do I need so much?
It's like you need to have an AT gun with you or AT nade, else guards are useless by themselves against Light tanks.
I'm not asking that they become "light tank killers", just that they can be strong enough to scare them away.

It should be 8 shots.
Guards button should either disable gun or paralyze vehicle just like USF stuart does.

Molotov is too slow, does no damage whatsoever and represents a waste most of the time.

ZiS only good ability is the artillery, as an AT gun it sucks, it does less damage than okw raks moves slower, has shitty rotation speed and misses al ot.

Clown car is stupidly easy to kill.

Look how many times I need to shoot to kill a kubel.
One PF can destroy a clown if it hits behind.
But 2 at nades are needed for a kubel, what's the logic?

SU 152 costs way too much to be good in 1v1, and it's not even that good as a tank, it's a lesser AVRE, doesn't have any redeemable pen rate.

Have you ever seen somebody building 82 mortars? Did you ever kill anything with it?
Everyone goes for 120mm, (and that's not even used this much).


Last but not least: CONSCRIPTS

So much talk about how conscripts don't scale late game or are crap.
I 100% agree that they are useless, people (such as vonivan) didn't just start spamming maxim out of the blue.
It's because cons are bad.

I know how you should use them, but since your definition of cons is that they are a versatile low cost unit that are good in covers and in number.

Then why do they cost the same as grens?
They should cost 210mp as they are now, with no upgrade and needing to buy ATnade/Molotov.

Holy ****

You went full retard

The heart wants what it wants

And what I mean by useless units/ability:

-82mm mortar = Not useless, not as good as USF or Ost mortar but its resonable.

-CONSCRIPTS = Lategame scaling is an issue, but they are a cheap t0 6 man unit who can build sandbags and have decent utility.

-Clown car = Its good for killing Kubel spam and its ok as an early recon unit. If you put a flamer inside and avoid any early snares then it can be really strong at killing support weapons / clearing buildings.

-Zis AT gun = Again another unit that is fine. Its not Pak40 / 6 pounder but its OK. Vet 1 ability could be better and I'd rather have TWP instead of barrage but its still useful.

-Guards button = I think this probably needs a slight cost decrease or something else to make it a bit more effective as its pretty easy to avoid / get out of but its a unique ability that no other faction has.

-Maxim = Is fine. Limited arc of fire but is pretty mobile, can be used offensively and has a decent pin time vs single squads.Go watch Von Ivan play.

-SU 152 = ISU is totally fine and is a wipe machine if you micro it well and use attack ground. Gets hard countered by JT / Ele which is an issue especially if you pick a commander early for guards, but thats life.

-Molotov = I feel it should be a bit quicker to throw it but otherwise it isn't that bad considering its cost. Bit annoying having to pay fuel to unlock it though.

-PTRS gun = Fine on guards, gives decent light AT and is enough generally to stop Penals getting walked all over. Have decent damage as well. I'd be against a PTRS buff vs infantry as it was stupid before how well it worked vs infantry. Can't comment them on Cons as I've never tried it.


See bold for replies. Seems mostly like a player issue rather than faction. I would say soviets are probably at their strongest right now since the game launched and most of the useless units have been fixed aside from M-42 & KV2. T-34 is still quite crap but its cheap and spammable so. (<444>3 Penals, SU-76 and SU-85)

Playercard please

Only a low skilled compstomper complains about and need to counter kubel spam which only exists when you play against CPU


Let me tell you that my player card is years above the pathetic one you show off.

Only a low skilled compstomper complains about and need to counter kubel spam which only exists when you play against CPU


Let me tell you that my player card is years above the pathetic one you show off.

one question : why do you bother posting in these forums, when you 1) honestly go half retard with your suggestions and 2) when you are so unnecessarily hostile in your writing? it really sounds like a rage post, which you have apparently posted again, due to a "compstomp moderator" locking it. so what are you doing here? youre better off finding a new, "skilled" forum or better yet, a small "skilled" group you can discuss with.

regarding the playercard, why dont you put yours on the show to the public? and before you attack mine, please know that I havent been consciously playing pre-patch and post-patch due to new, game breaking bugs.

either way, try to be more civil or, plainly said, fuck off.

Let me tell you that my player card is years above the pathetic one you show off.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Curious that 14 top 100 ranks (9 of which are top 50) is pathetic. You even got one rank in top 1000?

Edit: Its also pretty lol worthy you calling him a comp stomp moderator. Im fairly sure his 2v2 at rank was far above yours by several digits

Soviets are balanced if you go T2, weak when you go conscripts or T1.

T1:
Penals are hard countered by Ost machine guns not just in the unit matchup itself, but also because you'll have less units than Ost does if you open with T1. OKW can do basically the same thing with mg34 or just swarm them with more infantry.
Snipers don't target the gunner anymore, making them useless for supporting infantry attacks when you have to take out mgs and they weren't even good at it in the first place because the gun gets recrewed faster than their slow reload. And snipers in general don't fit T1, they would be more use with maxims which are better at being meat shields and controlling the map for them.
Clown cars are a suicide carrier.

Ost basic units and play doesn't just work against T1, it hard-counters it. OKW MG34 and/or swarm of infantry also beats T1.

Conscripts will lose in combat to Ost and OKW and they don't have any out of combat advantage like faster capping to make up for it. It's also too expensive to support conscripts with either T1 or T2 or vice versa which delays your first few unit timings too much, it just doesn't work in practice unlike what the devs intended.

T2:
Maxims are easily the best Soviet opening unit.
Mortars provide a counter for garrisoned units, which the other starts can't deal with reliably, and also works well with maxims whereas the other starts only have units that don't work well together.
AT guns are actually better with a guards doctrine than T1 garbage penals are, because you need two AT units to reliably beat a light vehicle anyway and guards + AT gun scales better against tanks than guards + guards, AT gun has a longer range and thus isn't as vulnerable to suppression or just getting bled.

T1 and Conscripts require that your opponent is incompetent just to work at all, whereas T2 is reliably good. T1 used to be good because of sniper+clown car, overpowered even before they nerfed and eventually removed it, and it had to be changed. Now it's garbage. Conscripts have always sucked. T2 has always been the most reliable.

Put your money where your mouth is.

Curious that 14 top 100 ranks (9 of which are top 50) is pathetic. You even got one rank in top 1000?

Edit: Its also pretty lol worthy you calling him a comp stomp moderator. Im fairly sure his 2v2 at rank was far above yours by several digits

Nigga, stop making me laugh, Top 100 in 3v3 and 4V4?
Are you seriously boasting about this?

These ranks don't mean shit in the actual game, in 1v1 I would roll over your ass.

This is a hilarious, while I'm not myself a top 100 in 4v4 I'm in slightly above 150 in 3v3, and way more in 1v1 as soviet.

Please stand in your own ground.

Troll is troll

Nigga, stop making me laugh, Top 100 in 3v3 and 4V4?
Are you seriously boasting about this?

These ranks don't mean shit in the actual game, in 1v1 I would roll over your ass.

This is a hilarious, while I'm not myself a top 100 in 4v4 I'm in slightly above 150 in 3v3, and way more in 1v1 as soviet.

Please stand in your own ground.

Your soviet is way more than what? My USF and Brit 1v1 ranks are in the top 100 as well (just hidden curently), so how much higher are we talking. Top 50? top 10? #1?

one question : why do you bother posting in these forums, when you 1) honestly go half retard with your suggestions and 2) when you are so unnecessarily hostile in your writing? it really sounds like a rage post, which you have apparently posted again, due to a "compstomp moderator" locking it. so what are you doing here? youre better off finding a new, "skilled" forum or better yet, a small "skilled" group you can discuss with.

regarding the playercard, why dont you put yours on the show to the public? and before you attack mine, please know that I havent been consciously playing pre-patch and post-patch due to new, game breaking bugs.

either way, try to be more civil or, plainly said, fuck off.

Let's be honest here, and read my previous thread.
Go see who is being insulting, and who trolls.

I just point out stuff in game.

Some biased moderator decides to lock it because whatever, then warns me for "trolling".

All the other shitheads who have been constantly insulting and saying I suck at the game, they received nothing.
So what do I care?

T1 and Conscripts require that your opponent is incompetent just to work at all, whereas T2 is reliably good. T1 used to be good because of sniper+clown car, overpowered even before they nerfed and eventually removed it, and it had to be changed. Now it's garbage. Conscripts have always sucked. T2 has always been the most reliable.

Conscripts work perfectly fine from the early stages as basic combat troops before being used as support units into the mid-late. 3 Conscripts or even 4 into grenades or tech is completely viable. You just need to be good at positioning. Your main objective is to hold grounds and stall using cover or things like the sandbags. If you want Conscripts into the mid-late, pick a doc with PPsh and rapid-conscription.

T1 you can also tech into and supplement with Guards and even buy T2 with it. Furthermore it's not hard to get both T1 or T2 up as Soviets, this is not the days where they costed 50+ fuel per structure.

Your soviet is way more than what? My USF and Brit 1v1 ranks are in the top 100 as well (just hidden curently), so how much higher are we talking. Top 50? top 10? #1?

It's not hidden.
It doesn't exist because you didn't play up to 10 and more games with a faction in 1v1.
I seriously doubt you are above 1v1 with only 6 wins...

Go, L2P then talk

If you think Conscripts UP fine, coh2.org is a free country with freedom of speech.


but since this is just an insult fest...with no real discussion im locking this.

If you choose to make this thread for a 3rd! time, lay off on the pointless insults pls.

Thx

I'll add, that copy pasting the same low effort thread 24hs after the 1st one has been locked is not gonna take you long in here.