So while I feel like I've figured out UKF in 2v2, I don't know about 1v1.
It's not like I'm new to losing by exploits (marder rush, halftrack base dive - although I don't remember facing the latter much if at all, because Wehr simply piospammed instead) and map control (pio spam and ketten spam, although unlike any map control strategies in coh2 those two also fit in the exploit category). But unlike the coh1 brits I don't fully know the ins and outs of UKF yet, so I don't know what the proper responses are, what you're supposed to do.
1) Kubelwagen
It guarantees him control of his side of the map while he sends his infantry to stall you. The only counter I can think of is sending a bren after it, but that's at the very best a zero sum game, because as soon as your bren goes away he sends in his kubel again. He also has t0 repair which you don't. And even if you do force the kubel back, the bren's damage is too low without an upgun to join a fight somewhere else and have a decisive impact. It's not like he needs to be aggressive against it when it comes, he can just let his inf sit in cover/garrison, because if you're not stopping his kubel he's winning. What do you do against it?
2) Halftrack exploit
Ost simply loads his stuff up and drives into your base. Now to be fair I wasn't thinking of this possibility when it was done to me, but I'm not sure what to do against it. Just assume he's doing this "strategy", mine every approach to the base inside the machine guns' fields of fire and hope he doesn't know what a minesweeper is? make a bofors in your own base? lol
3) Emplacements
They don't help you take the 2/3 of the map that he will definitely have if he's OKW, and then he simply gets a leig, parks it close to his field reinforce HQ, and it's either pick royal engineers and spam stand fast or watch it (and anything that tries to repair it) go down. So I guess you're not supposed to use them against OKW. But Ost can do basically the same thing with a halftrack and mortar, and he can use the halftrack to beat your units in the field too. While if you want to fire back effectively you need to put a squad inside and keep it there. That means his mp investment in the artillery war is effectively lower than yours, because his halftrack can still help his units while your unit inside can't (especially because it'll bleed from the mortar). So just go AEC in 1v1?
4) Map presence
How much territory should I generally expect to hold in each matchup and where to send/what to accomplish with your first few units (besides the obvious like taking key buildings on certain maps)?
5) Doctrines
I have this feeling that I'm supposed to buy mobile assault regiment, spam flamethrower engineers, get an aec and piats, and then hold out for land mattress and cromwell/comet. Is that right?
6) Snipers
What's the proper response against them? just get T1 and hope to catch him with your own? (zzz...)
Thanks bros!
1v1 help
9 Jul 2016, 20:19 PM
#1
Posts: 132
10 Jul 2016, 15:57 PM
#2
Posts: 196
1) OKW having map control is kinda something you have to just accept, IMO. For the early game, my mentality playing UKF vs OKW is that if I'm controlling 1 VP, 1 FP and 1 MP then I'm doing OK. That's enough to get to the mid-game, get out the AEC and some weapon upgrades and start to push back. If you want to punish the Kubel a bit harder or if you need to stop it ninja-capping your flanks on larger maps, the Universal Carrier is the answer. I just disagree with your assessment that it isn't good to help in infantry combat. For its cost I think it does fine.
2) Personally, I've never seen this. But if it is that much of a problem for you then yeah, mining your own base is the solution. This isn't bad to do anyway, to stop vehicles chasing you down for squadwipes.
3) The point of emplacements is to let you secure your own map sectors so you can focus on attacking into your opponents. So actually, they do help you take away your opponent's map control, just indirectly. As for the Leig, the solution is actually to play aggressive and try and wipe the Leig. The Field HQ doesn't have any defences other than reinforcement, and with a couple of Tommies and a Sniper/Vickers you can effectively keep his units pinned at his forward base. Sometimes you can even get in there and steal the Leig. Also, if his Field HQ is in range of your mortar pit then your opponent has fucked up hard. Finally, if you really want to deal with the Leig+Field HQ combo then get artillery flares on one of your Tommies and just blast the shit out of it.
4) Too general to answer quickly, depends so much on what your opponent is doing.
5) Mobile Assault is probably the doctrine that is useful most often, so if you really want to be competitive with UKF then it's a good idea to pick it up. The other doctrines are more situational. I use Mobile Assault, Royal Engineers and 1 of the Crocodile commanders. Mobile Assault is kinda the default, Engineers is for emplacement play and free vision and the third commander is just for the late-game Croc if I haven't chosen a commander already.
6) Counter-sniping is for sure the best solution. Make sure not to reveal your sniper until you have a kill-shot on his. Put him on hold fire and sneak him up through cover. Be patient and ignore the temptation to snipe at Grens.
Hope this helps
2) Personally, I've never seen this. But if it is that much of a problem for you then yeah, mining your own base is the solution. This isn't bad to do anyway, to stop vehicles chasing you down for squadwipes.
3) The point of emplacements is to let you secure your own map sectors so you can focus on attacking into your opponents. So actually, they do help you take away your opponent's map control, just indirectly. As for the Leig, the solution is actually to play aggressive and try and wipe the Leig. The Field HQ doesn't have any defences other than reinforcement, and with a couple of Tommies and a Sniper/Vickers you can effectively keep his units pinned at his forward base. Sometimes you can even get in there and steal the Leig. Also, if his Field HQ is in range of your mortar pit then your opponent has fucked up hard. Finally, if you really want to deal with the Leig+Field HQ combo then get artillery flares on one of your Tommies and just blast the shit out of it.
4) Too general to answer quickly, depends so much on what your opponent is doing.
5) Mobile Assault is probably the doctrine that is useful most often, so if you really want to be competitive with UKF then it's a good idea to pick it up. The other doctrines are more situational. I use Mobile Assault, Royal Engineers and 1 of the Crocodile commanders. Mobile Assault is kinda the default, Engineers is for emplacement play and free vision and the third commander is just for the late-game Croc if I haven't chosen a commander already.
6) Counter-sniping is for sure the best solution. Make sure not to reveal your sniper until you have a kill-shot on his. Put him on hold fire and sneak him up through cover. Be patient and ignore the temptation to snipe at Grens.
Hope this helps
10 Jul 2016, 23:01 PM
#3
Posts: 18 | Subs: 1
Like Kallipolan was saying, the British faction has a notably weak early game, if you overextend you'll end up being pushed back and losing a ton of territory. Make sure your tommies are engaging from green cover with vickers support when you can, and if they're losing get them somewhere with support. Kubels loose combat when your tommies are in green cover or have support. All this support I'm talking about is most usually UC, against OKW I consider it a must buy, it tilts engagements completely in your favor and now has crew repairs at vet 0.
Many other problems you posted are all remedied by the AEC. Once you take the previous steps, you should come into mid game looking pretty great, and unless you're doing a weird strategy or something like that you should go AEC. AEC counters all axis light armor (half-tracks, 222's, luchs) with it's gun and small-arms resistant armor. Once again though, do not overextend even now that you have a tank. It is not all that against infantry and will die without support, even quicker if you get close enough to get fausted.
The key for emplacements is not to over-invest in them. They are not invincible, even though they can get pretty close with advanced emplacement doctrine (75 muni for better survivability per emplacement, 400 mp for repairing advanced assembly). CoH2 is very big on "manpower bleed", and emplacements don't bleed unless you keep using mp to defend them. Don't focus on keeping one alive if it will cost you more than your opponent. The mortar pit is the most important emplacement for Brits, it is your only indirect fire solution; plan on building one. Advanced assembly is a pretty good building that you should not forget about, the ability to reinforce units in-field provides better map presence mid-late game. All the other emplacements are extremely situational and 9 times out of ten not worth building.
I played with the vanilla commanders for a long while and they worked pretty well, winning games is in good micro and macro. The level that commander choice makes the difference is pretty high.
A well micro'd sniper is worth it pretty much every game. Against OST it can counter snipe if that's were he chooses to put his mp (very common). Against okw just keep it safe from kubels and it'll bleed him like crazy. Also, UC can harass sniper and kill or force retreat early game; they get bonus damage versus snipers.
In summary - UC is good - nearly must buy against OKW, AEC is must buy for most strats, emplacements are there for support - they are not your core, snipers are great
Many other problems you posted are all remedied by the AEC. Once you take the previous steps, you should come into mid game looking pretty great, and unless you're doing a weird strategy or something like that you should go AEC. AEC counters all axis light armor (half-tracks, 222's, luchs) with it's gun and small-arms resistant armor. Once again though, do not overextend even now that you have a tank. It is not all that against infantry and will die without support, even quicker if you get close enough to get fausted.
The key for emplacements is not to over-invest in them. They are not invincible, even though they can get pretty close with advanced emplacement doctrine (75 muni for better survivability per emplacement, 400 mp for repairing advanced assembly). CoH2 is very big on "manpower bleed", and emplacements don't bleed unless you keep using mp to defend them. Don't focus on keeping one alive if it will cost you more than your opponent. The mortar pit is the most important emplacement for Brits, it is your only indirect fire solution; plan on building one. Advanced assembly is a pretty good building that you should not forget about, the ability to reinforce units in-field provides better map presence mid-late game. All the other emplacements are extremely situational and 9 times out of ten not worth building.
I played with the vanilla commanders for a long while and they worked pretty well, winning games is in good micro and macro. The level that commander choice makes the difference is pretty high.
A well micro'd sniper is worth it pretty much every game. Against OST it can counter snipe if that's were he chooses to put his mp (very common). Against okw just keep it safe from kubels and it'll bleed him like crazy. Also, UC can harass sniper and kill or force retreat early game; they get bonus damage versus snipers.
In summary - UC is good - nearly must buy against OKW, AEC is must buy for most strats, emplacements are there for support - they are not your core, snipers are great
11 Jul 2016, 18:30 PM
#4
Posts: 132
Thanks for your responses guys.
So in 1v1, my build order is pretty much mg > bren > tommies > tommies. Upgun the bren, then get T1 for tommy brens, double snipers and an AEC. Throw up a mortar pit if you have the space for it, then get cromwells, or comets if things are going better. Meta Regiment-err I mean, Mobile Assault Regiment works best since flamethrowers save you from needing the WASP on your bren, solve UKF being quite poor against units in cover, and makes engineers into great assault units in general. Tommy bonus = they plain get stronger, which is great. Infiltration commandos for wiping snipers and team weapons, and then you've got the land mattress to bomb AT squads when your tanks are on the field.
I just have one more question. What would you do against this? it's my own advice for an Ost player who was struggling against UKF in 1v1 and it can be done against any UKF strategy, not just if he goes emplacements. Mines don't work against strategy #2, because he has minesweepers.
So in 1v1, my build order is pretty much mg > bren > tommies > tommies. Upgun the bren, then get T1 for tommy brens, double snipers and an AEC. Throw up a mortar pit if you have the space for it, then get cromwells, or comets if things are going better. Meta Regiment-err I mean, Mobile Assault Regiment works best since flamethrowers save you from needing the WASP on your bren, solve UKF being quite poor against units in cover, and makes engineers into great assault units in general. Tommy bonus = they plain get stronger, which is great. Infiltration commandos for wiping snipers and team weapons, and then you've got the land mattress to bomb AT squads when your tanks are on the field.
I just have one more question. What would you do against this? it's my own advice for an Ost player who was struggling against UKF in 1v1 and it can be done against any UKF strategy, not just if he goes emplacements. Mines don't work against strategy #2, because he has minesweepers.
Any doctrine with the supply drop zone ability (so osttruppen, luftwaffe support and close air support) is good against UKF, especially against emplacements.
That 800 manpower plus the units sitting inside of his bofors + mortar combo can't contest your fuel drops and delayed his tanks. And then the emplacements are useless against your own tanks, which you now get faster. Take him to town with an ostwind and follow up with more tanks.
Strategy #1 is a T1 > T3 build. To facilitate the strategy, open with gren > sniper > gren > sniper. Don't bother with a machine gun or mortars, you don't need them (although mortars are great against UKF with other strats). Just use the grens to defend your snipers against his bren carrier and bleed his mp with your snipers while conserving your own due to lack of casualties, and let your pios cap in the meantime while you put heavy pressure on him. He will for sure get emplacements against that, which is what we wanted him to do. If he starts spamming royal engineers before he puts up emplacements you can get a machine gun, otherwise save your manpower for fuel caches, supply drops and getting your first tank (ostwind) out asap.
Strategy #2 is the same but get T2 and drop munitions instead of fuel. Get at least 3 halftracks, get two panzergren squads and schreks on both, get minesweeper pios, then put all of your units in the halftracks. Start upgrading flamers on all but one halftrack (so you can still reinforce) and then drive into his base. You'll win the game when you destroy his command post buildings which will go quickly with schreks, and flammen HTs + 2 schrek squads + HT reinforce takes care of anything he tries to do. Like the first strat, this works even better if he gets emplacements no matter where he puts them. But if he puts them far enough away that they don't cover his base, you know for sure that he's not expecting this strategy (not that I know what to do against it, it's one of the reasons why I don't play UKF in 1v1).
You're welcome & have fun.
21 Jul 2016, 21:19 PM
#5
Posts: 18 | Subs: 1
Mg>tommy>tech is classic t0, at t1 try to get AEC sooner and wait on brens. Weapon racks cost fuel, which lessens the shock value of the AEC. In general, you want to take advantage of the fact that Brits tech up very quickly, it is very rare that you shouldn't tech up as soon as possible. Also, engineer brens are better than infantry section brens. Wasp is also a good upgrade, better than Vickers if you're going to upgun a tank that's use diminishes past the 4 minute mark. The two strategies you bring up aren't viable against a Brit who maintains field presence. The AEC comes soon enough to spell doom for either strat. In regards to the "he's sure to get emplacements", don't do that. Emplacements are for denial or reinforcing sectors, if you're using emplacements reactively your resources are going into positions that won't be useful in a few minutes.
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