Couple of tweaks I thought should be made to Ostheer's Assault Grenadiers, who are generally considered to be pretty weak right now:
Squad population from 5 to 7 (5 is unusually low for an infantry unit - it's actually less than Pioneers)
Model 24 Grenade Assault munitions cost from 45 to 30 (this ability is comparable to OKW Infiltration Grenades but costs significantly more to use. In addition, I think 45 munitions is a lot to be forking out for an early-game ability that can be dodged pretty easily.)
And then either:
Squad manpower cost from 280 to 240
OR
Received accuracy reduced from 1 to .9-ish
Assault Grenadier Tweaks
10 Jun 2016, 09:41 AM
#1
Posts: 362
10 Jun 2016, 10:04 AM
#2
Posts: 474
Even with these tweaks, their inability to threaten vehicles makes them pretty useless, especially considering their cost. Keep everything the same and give them panzerfausts instead. Then they can be a more viable alternative to grens or osttruppen.
10 Jun 2016, 10:06 AM
#3
9 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29
The problem with your proposed changes is that it buffs their early game.
The main issue with assault grenadiers is once squads get weapon upgrades they can no longer compete. So if they are going to get buffed it should be in their vet bonuses.
The main issue with assault grenadiers is once squads get weapon upgrades they can no longer compete. So if they are going to get buffed it should be in their vet bonuses.
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10 Jun 2016, 10:20 AM
#4
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
The problem with your proposed changes is that it buffs their early game.
The main issue with assault grenadiers is once squads get weapon upgrades they can no longer compete. So if they are going to get buffed it should be in their vet bonuses.
Indeed. Assault Grens are actually very potent troops in the early game. With their sprint ability they can easily take out any enemy basic infantry units 1v1. They just become lacking later on in the game.
However, I am not to keen on Mechanized Assault doctrine receiving any buffs because it is already a pretty OP doctrine on a lot of maps. I just can't understand why Relic decided to go only 50% of the way when they chanced the call-in meta.
10 Jun 2016, 14:03 PM
#5
Posts: 721
like tightrope said very heavy veterancy buffs needed
10 Jun 2016, 14:28 PM
#6
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
The problem with your proposed changes is that it buffs their early game.
The main issue with assault grenadiers is once squads get weapon upgrades they can no longer compete. So if they are going to get buffed it should be in their vet bonuses.
Yeah, that should be precisely what is needed.
10 Jun 2016, 14:50 PM
#7
Posts: 289
disagree with reduce MP cost, increase accu or dmg
sorry if my eng is not very good
10 Jun 2016, 15:50 PM
#8
Posts: 2742
Assault grens suffer the same way penal battalions do: they are incapable of handling any vehicles. Even buffs to vet won't help that.
Assault grens getting some sort of AT would overshadow grens pretty solidly while also buffing one commander significantly.
I wonder how feasible it would be if instead of assault grens being a call-in, it was an upgrade for Grens. Add 1 man to a gren squad and replace their loadout with mp40s. (And I guess swap rifle nades for model 24s since they don't have rifles.) Keeping fausts wouldn't be a problem there.
Assault grens getting some sort of AT would overshadow grens pretty solidly while also buffing one commander significantly.
I wonder how feasible it would be if instead of assault grens being a call-in, it was an upgrade for Grens. Add 1 man to a gren squad and replace their loadout with mp40s. (And I guess swap rifle nades for model 24s since they don't have rifles.) Keeping fausts wouldn't be a problem there.
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10 Jun 2016, 15:52 PM
#9
Posts: 1063
Assault grens suffer the same way penal battalions do: they are incapable of handling any vehicles.
Assault grens getting some sort of AT would overshadow grens pretty solidly while also buffing one commander significantly.
I wonder how feasible it would be if instead of assault grens being a call-in, it was an upgrade for Grens. Add 1 man to a gren squad and replace their loadout with mp40s. (And I guess swap rifle nades for model 24s since they don't have rifles.) Keeping fausts wouldn't be a problem there.
Give Gren 2 MP44 upgrade + sprint and I'll be happy. That way AssGren will still scale to late game while not buff the commander too much.
13 Jun 2016, 15:00 PM
#10
Posts: 289
assault grenadiers is ****, buff it relic
sorry if my eng is not very good
13 Jun 2016, 15:05 PM
#11
Posts: 621
Give them StGs upgrade when t2 is built so they can be like pgrens and scale into the game
13 Jun 2016, 15:08 PM
#12
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Give them StGs upgrade when t2 is built so they can be like pgrens and scale into the game
Personally, I would appreciate keeping them useful with their MP 40s with veterancy instead, because GODDAMMIT THERE'S STGS EVERYWHERE AND NO MP 40S
(giev non-doc PPShes for Soviets too)
13 Jun 2016, 15:10 PM
#13
Posts: 621
Personally, I would appreciate keeping them useful with their MP 40s with veterancy instead, because GODDAMMIT THERE'S STGS EVERYWHERE AND NO MP 40S
(giev non-doc PPShes for Soviets too)
Well I meant like 2-3 stgs 5 would be op on a 5man squad
13 Jun 2016, 15:13 PM
#14
1 
Posts: 2885
Personally, I would appreciate keeping them useful with their MP 40s with veterancy instead, because GODDAMMIT THERE'S STGS EVERYWHERE AND NO MP 40S
+1 Plus the game makes it look like like mp40 is super bad, significantly worse than PPSh or Thompson. Sure it was worse, but not that much worse. It was also much more usefull than grease gun, while in game these 2 have similar performance. Giving veterancy bonuces is needed so that buffed mp40 doesn't break early game, but later on the 5 men mp40 squad shouldn't deal less damage than 4 men PPSh squad.
I would move them to one of the common commanders though. Buffing one of the top ostheer doctrines can really screw up the ballance.
13 Jun 2016, 15:14 PM
#15
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Even with these tweaks, their inability to threaten vehicles makes them pretty useless, especially considering their cost. Keep everything the same and give them panzerfausts instead. Then they can be a more viable alternative to grens or osttruppen.
Shocks and smg paras must be most UP inf in your book then...
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
13 Jun 2016, 15:36 PM
#16
Posts: 289
no stg again, just buff them
sorry if my eng is not very good
13 Jun 2016, 15:38 PM
#17
Posts: 673
Give them StGs upgrade when t2 is built so they can be like pgrens and scale into the game
Want buff unit - STG is universal solution!
There was actually some kind of upgrade for Partisans, which could improve their survivability. Why not to make something like that for assgrens?
13 Jun 2016, 15:52 PM
#18
Posts: 1216
Relic shouldn't have bothered making Stormtroopers then...
Give Gren 2 MP44 upgrade + sprint and I'll be happy. That way AssGren will still scale to late game while not buff the commander too much.
13 Jun 2016, 15:54 PM
#19
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
One could always simply increase CP to 1 or 2 and make them an elite infantry...
13 Jun 2016, 15:57 PM
#20
Posts: 1063
Relic shouldn't have bothered making Stormtroopers then...
Stormtroopers got camo + cloaking means they are better at ambush then Gren, new Gren can fight at close range while retain Rifle nade/Faust which is always useful. I want OH to have something that can hold back Rifle horde late game without resorting to ultra DPS like Obers/Fusiliers or mega wipe like PzWerfer.
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