Relic should stop balancing the game around 1v1
8 Apr 2016, 18:11 PM
#21
Posts: 526
There doesn't need to be different stats to balance for different game modes. Instead you just have a slightly different resource income modifier depending on total number of territory points and/or number of players. You adjust that between the different factions and all weapons stats would stay the same.
8 Apr 2016, 18:16 PM
#22
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
If you go on coh2chart alone, 3v3 and 4v4 are more faction balanced than 1's and 2's right now.
Mixed factions on each team helps the averages even out much more. 3v3 and 4v4 have too many variables to really express balance like this without knowing all of Relic's hidden internal stats.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
8 Apr 2016, 18:41 PM
#23
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
Because the majority play team games whre strategy and skills are of utmost importance. 1v1 is just about a regular build order or reliance on some op units or P2W.
p2w units are p2w all the way up to 4v4, not just 1v1
Team games are now broken thanks to the constant efforts by relic during the past year to make the game the way some "top" players approve of.
First problem is that Relic values their vision of the game, whether its milking DLC sales and fixing the problem after the sales go down, or making the game intentionally casual, who knows. The second problem is that when they are consulting "top" players, its usually the more vocal community people rather than the actual top tier players.
8 Apr 2016, 19:04 PM
#24
Posts: 1166 | Subs: 1
The game should be balanced around 1s for no other reason than its the simplest equation to solve with the least amount of variables.
1v1 meta is king (RNG has a HIGH impact)
4v4 strategy is king (RNG has a LOW impact)
The game can be balanced for both 1v1 and team games. There are several ways to balance team games without affecting 1v1 balance. (ex: a resource income nerf, allowing certain commanders abilities to be limited wholly or concurrently)
There are fundamental problems with the game that need to be addressed before we balance. (Blobbing, teching, emplacements)
1v1 meta is king (RNG has a HIGH impact)
4v4 strategy is king (RNG has a LOW impact)
The game can be balanced for both 1v1 and team games. There are several ways to balance team games without affecting 1v1 balance. (ex: a resource income nerf, allowing certain commanders abilities to be limited wholly or concurrently)
There are fundamental problems with the game that need to be addressed before we balance. (Blobbing, teching, emplacements)
8 Apr 2016, 19:12 PM
#25
Posts: 1617
First problem is that Relic values their vision of the game, whether its milking DLC sales and fixing the problem after the sales go down, or making the game intentionally casual, who knows. The second problem is that when they are consulting "top" players, its usually the more vocal community people rather than the actual top tier players.
I was a top player when Tiger Ace came out.
Same story with Britz now.
Or soviet industry.
Who is a good "top" player in your term? The one who is in top whatever or the one who"knows" the game?
8 Apr 2016, 19:21 PM
#26
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
There are fundamental problems with the game that need to be addressed before we balance. (Blobbing, teching, emplacements)
Blobbing will never be fixed, COH2 is very conducive to it compared to vcoh and here's just a few reasons why:
-USF get smoke grenades
-conscript oorah makes spreading out less important since you can quickly relocate 1 or more squads for small muni cost
-anti infantry vehicles are either more expensive (Ostwind) or less effective (armored cars) than their vcoh counterparts
-the way mines work punish players heavily for straying from a sweeper unit
-2 factions don't have snipers
-MGs dropping on retreat give more incentive to rush everything to a defensive position now that you have better chance of recapturing it for yourself
-off map artillery is more delayed
-some units such as field support guns and Scotts are probably better at insta gibbing stationary single squads instead of punishing a blob so long as its moving
-OKW completely revolves around infantry
8 Apr 2016, 19:28 PM
#27
Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1
Blobbing will never be fixed, COH2 is very conducive to it compared to vcoh and here's just a few reasons why:
-USF get smoke grenades
-conscript oorah makes spreading out less important since you can quickly relocate 1 or more squads for small muni cost
-anti infantry vehicles are either more expensive (Ostwind) or less effective (armored cars) than their vcoh counterparts
-the way mines work punish players heavily for straying from a sweeper unit
-2 factions don't have snipers
-MGs dropping on retreat give more incentive to rush everything to a defensive position now that you have better chance of recapturing it for yourself
-off map artillery is more delayed
-some units such as field support guns and Scotts are probably better at insta gibbing stationary single squads instead of punishing a blob so long as its moving
-OKW completely revolves around infantry
i can remember you were a master in sniper blobbing in vcoh
8 Apr 2016, 19:29 PM
#28
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
i can remember you were a master in sniper blobbing in vcoh
you remembered wrong young padawan
8 Apr 2016, 19:42 PM
#29
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
I was a top player when Tiger Ace came out.
Same story with Britz now.
Or soviet industry.
Who is a good "top" player in your term? The one who is in top whatever or the one who"knows" the game?
What I meant was in the early stages of the game the balance guys mostly ignored what people like Aimstrong, Seph, DevM, Tommy, Inverse, Budwise, etc. had to say. Then later they had balance beta groups which consisted mostly of Relics "friends." A few of them really good, others average at best. The last and near perfect vcoh patch was mostly the work of the community, some legitimate experts at the game and others more balance and unit stat gurus. No private group they've put together has been as capable as that one, and the groups they did have were always put in the dark when they were about to milk new paid OP bullshit.
8 Apr 2016, 19:54 PM
#30
Posts: 1384
4v4 can never be balanced because 4v4 players are bad at the game.
Every 4v4 player I've ever seen in 1v1 build 4-5 infantry squads and blobbed which meant they got destroyed by machine guns and lost all their map control every time they did a mass retreat.
The same blobbing tactics are why everyone is whining about emplacements and artillery like land mattress. It's 1000% a L2P issue.
Every 4v4 player I've ever seen in 1v1 build 4-5 infantry squads and blobbed which meant they got destroyed by machine guns and lost all their map control every time they did a mass retreat.
The same blobbing tactics are why everyone is whining about emplacements and artillery like land mattress. It's 1000% a L2P issue.
8 Apr 2016, 21:17 PM
#31
Posts: 526
It's just a different sort of game. 1v1 you have to have your attention spread across multiple flanks and vps/cutoffs. With 3v3 upwards you are focussed on a smaller part of the map for most of the game and blobbing is the equivalent of using brute force to hold that area. Larger games have their own strategies. Blobbing happens to be one of them.
8 Apr 2016, 21:46 PM
#32
Posts: 446 | Subs: 2
> Implying balancing for the different modes is mutually exclusive.
Dear Lord, teach me to be generous; to give and not count the cost; to fight and not heed the wounds; to work and ask for no reward, save that of knowing I am doing Your will.
Argumentation, disagreement, and debate are critical for success.
The most important type of diversity is viewpoint diversity.
Argumentation, disagreement, and debate are critical for success.
The most important type of diversity is viewpoint diversity.
9 Apr 2016, 04:11 AM
#33
Posts: 236
Remove maps from automatch for 2v2 that are played as 1v1 maps. Like Kharkov and semosky and crossing woods. They're to small for 2v2s.... Get rid of cluster city maps like trois ponts and edelerbruck.
It's one of the biggest issues with 2v2s. We dont have very good quality 2v2 maps right now.... and many of them are just to small or to clustered to be balanced.
It's one of the biggest issues with 2v2s. We dont have very good quality 2v2 maps right now.... and many of them are just to small or to clustered to be balanced.
9 Apr 2016, 07:08 AM
#34
Posts: 823 | Subs: 3
What I meant was in the early stages of the game the balance guys mostly ignored what people like Aimstrong, Seph, DevM, Tommy, Inverse, Budwise, etc. had to say. .
Dem Topplayers dat play dis game twice a year (i'm taking out devm) MVGame
Me: I am scared, that i will need to shake ma head the same as when i read ur posts, so i rather not
Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
Katitof: Its not even close to me even at my worst in the past, imagine ullu, incendiary, aaa, vetlolcake and disto merge into one mega axis zord with forcefield protecting it from accepting any factual data. Add to that a victim card(his rumblings at my PM).
9 Apr 2016, 08:01 AM
#35
Posts: 48
So...
If unit X from faction 1 and unit Y from faction 2 have a really strong synergy that is hard to overcome, you propose we make unit X and Y close to junk so in case they work together the outcome will be manageable..?
Not so bright idea I would say!
If unit X from faction 1 and unit Y from faction 2 have a really strong synergy that is hard to overcome, you propose we make unit X and Y close to junk so in case they work together the outcome will be manageable..?
Not so bright idea I would say!
9 Apr 2016, 08:33 AM
#36
Posts: 558 | Subs: 1
Or, just balance 1v1/2v2 and 3v3/4v4 as two different brackets. Like PvE/PvP is balanced in other games.
Same system, slightly different stats/mechanics.
implying lelic could get this done
10 Apr 2016, 12:21 PM
#37
Posts: 137
Every great game is balanced around the competitive scene because that is where the overpowered stuff has the most influence. The balance will easily trickle down to the rest of the game.
There are a lot of problems and they ALL stem from relic not paying attention to their pro scene
There are a lot of problems and they ALL stem from relic not paying attention to their pro scene
10 Apr 2016, 18:54 PM
#38
Posts: 5279
All they need to do s make multiplayer maps have less points, more cutoffs and/or scale down the resource points depending on the amount of players in the mode. It wouldn't be a separate game, it soukd simply pace properly
#stalinwept
10 Apr 2016, 19:13 PM
#39
Posts: 578
Because the majority play team games whre strategy and skills are of utmost importance. 1v1 is just about a regular build order or reliance on some op units or P2W.
Team games are now broken thanks to the constant efforts by relic during the past year to make the game the way some "top" players approve of.
Let's deal with the truth, no one plays 1v1, and team games are broken as hell.
10 Apr 2016, 21:04 PM
#40
Posts: 556
Best response ever ^
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