HOW to FIX MG's in this game

6 man support teams was flawed when the game was released and its still flawed today.

nope, it just prevents sniper bullpudding luckily

Problem with vickers is it does not suppress quick enough. I don't care that it does good dmg I need it to suppress if it can't do that it just ends up becoming the enemys vickers.

Well thought out post OP. I really like the traverse speed idea - especially for Vickers where you can't rely on AOE suppression like a MG42 can.

Not sure how I feel about USF idea... the set-up time on .50 Cal is pretty fast and a fast tear-down might be a little OP in the hands of the right player. But then again the LT tier could use a little love so it might not hurt either. In principle I like it.

Maxim - cost increase might be a bit much (depending on degree of set-up time nerf) but I think most people would agree that Maxim spam is pretty obnoxious and on principle a faction shouldn't be able to more or less replace mainline infantry with a support weapon the way Soviets can right now.

Vickers - I would say slightly nerf Vet 1 bonus in exchange for slight suppression buff. Right now you need 2 of them to deal with any semblance of a blob... its pretty sad.

noob here, but after seeing how people think maxims are OP (not saying they are not OP) please replace maxim with a copy of the MG-42, all the same, price and capabilities....that could be a great win win for every faction in my opinion...su will get a real defensive mg while OST and OKW stop fighting maxim spam....


could this work??? or just a bad idea from a noob player???

Problem with vickers is it does not suppress quick enough. I don't care that it does good dmg I need it to suppress if it can't do that it just ends up becoming the enemys vickers.

About Vickers I think the range increase at Vet 1 should be decreased slightly but changed into a straight range increase, currently the whole required building just make this thing very map dependent and at late game it can only be used to guard your sim city since with low suppression and the prevalent of crater late game you can only stick it inside trenches, I want it to be able to use outside building so Brit can be less campy.
Another note, why MG and Mortar can not be loaded into transport?

YMMV with MGs against infantry because infantry don't actually get suppressed until given a new move command.

So if you or your opponent tells an infantry squad to throw a grenade before an MG starts firing, they will waltz up to range, even once under fire and being suppressed, and throw the grenade.

If you keep giving orders to the unit while under fire, they will drop to the ground once that suppression its. The only thing that breaks this is being pinned, as it disables the abilities.

It's not 100%, as the suppression triggers when the entities have a new command, not necessarily the squad as a whole, but it's usually more than enough to get that grenade off.

MGs in CoH are supposed to be about map control and denying infantry movement.

Everyone has off games.

What would you suggest as changes to the maxim then?

I like it how you ignore how you were wrong about the maxims only getting nerfed but allright, i'll bite.

Remove 5% suppresion bulletin (no explanation needed...)

Nerf the turning time hard (if a maxim isn't set-up in the direction enemy inf is coming, it should lose and not be able to turn and win)

Increase received accuracy (if inf does manage to flank, it should die, not wait for second maxim to fire at inf squad)

OR ( as opposed to the rec.accruacy thing)

Increase reinforce cost (from 15 to 25)
Right now, its ridiculous manpower efficent to use maxims and as a support unit, that should not be.

Nerf the turning time hard (if a maxim isn't set-up in the direction enemy inf is coming, it should lose and not be able to turn and win)

Increase received accuracy (if inf does manage to flank, it should die, not wait for second maxim to fire at inf squad)

OR ( as opposed to the rec.accruacy thing)

Increase reinforce cost (from 15 to 25)
Right now, its ridiculous manpower efficent to use maxims and as a support unit, that should not be.

[removed infraction: no lets not resort ot name calling please -wifidi]

Maxim squad already cost more than mg42 to reinforce while being inferior 90 mp vs 84. Do you believe that 150 mp reinforce can be implemented. It can go with same huge performance increase. Im ok with that since i rarely have more than 1 maxim and not at the front. Not to lose it.
And i cant play yor 1v1 5 days maybe more.
Maxims arc is so small that its useless to setup it in advance. And setup time is the same for all mgs.

Low reinforcment cost of OH units is the real thing. It has a compensation that they are more wipeable. You basicaly dont deal damage to grens or pgrens unless you wipe them thats how i estimate while playing.

YMMV with MGs against infantry because infantry don't actually get suppressed until given a new move command.

So if you or your opponent tells an infantry squad to throw a grenade before an MG starts firing, they will waltz up to range, even once under fire and being suppressed, and throw the grenade.

If you keep giving orders to the unit while under fire, they will drop to the ground once that suppression its. The only thing that breaks this is being pinned, as it disables the abilities.

It's not 100%, as the suppression triggers when the entities have a new command, not necessarily the squad as a whole, but it's usually more than enough to get that grenade off.

MGs in CoH are supposed to be about map control and denying infantry movement.

That's stupid, suppression should kicks in after MG shot a certain amount of bullets, regardless of enemy command. Inf should flank MG to throw grenade, not yolo throwing nade right in the front.

[removed infraction: no lets not resort ot name calling please -wifidi]

Maxim squad already cost more than mg42 to reinforce while being inferior 90 mp vs 84. Do you believe that 150 mp reinforce can be implemented. It can go with same huge performance increase. Im ok with that since i rarely have more than 1 maxim and not at the front. Not to lose it.
And i cant play yor 1v1 5 days maybe more.
Maxims arc is so small that its useless to setup it in advance. And setup time is the same for all mgs.

Low reinforcment cost of OH units is the real thing. It has a compensation that they are more wipeable. You basicaly dont deal damage to grens or pgrens unless you wipe them thats how i estimate while playing.

I.... I am trying to understand what you are saying but i seriously can't make heads or tails since your post is without structure, order, logic or any kind of stats/facts as back-up for what i think are your arguments.

Nevertheless i shall give it my best shot.

The reinforce cost... per model it's lower for the maxim and considering the maxims has more models it's less likely to be wiped and from experience i can tell i bleed alot less with maxims than with any other unit. Besides that, the maxim>mg42 once you start having more than 1 mg (and with maxims, youa lways have more than 1). Also, i have no clue where the 84 and 90 comes from so please explain that (same as with the 150 mp reinforce).

And no, last thing maxim needs is a buff (since you know, its OP).

Set-up time is certianly not the same for all mg's, ever tried setting up a mg42 when a con/rifle walks towards it? you're not going to have a good time.
Grens walking towards maxims, well the grens generally are smart enough never to try that.

As for low reinforce cost...... grens cost 30 mp per model, as per the standard formula, pgrens get a reduction but you generally don't see alot of pgrens as opposed to the number of grens on the field.
You're just wrong here.

lastly, looking forward to the 1vs1.
Im certain it will be a real eye opener for you.

i like the suggestions in the original post, if i may also add..

there should be a button on all MGs that when you click it the machine gun MANUALLY reloads so it is as ready as it can be when an engagement will happen, otherwise machineguns sometimes will be almost out of ammo and not do anything about it until they run out of ammo in a tactically unfortunate time.

the same for all mg's, ever tried setting up a mg42 when a con/rifle walks towards it? you're not going to have a good time.
Grens walking towards maxims, well the grens generally are smart enough never to try that.

As for low reinforce cost...... grens cost 30 mp per model, as per the standard formula, pgrens get a reduction but you generally don't see alot of pgrens as opposed to the number of grens on the field.
You're just wrong here.

lastly, looking forward to the 1vs1.
Im certain it will be a real eye opener for you.

Reinforcement cost is calculated out of squad cost not model's. For most (or all) infantry its aprox half of the squad price. Dislike saying obvious things its like someone is trolling me.

None of your changes will be implemented. Nothing even similar will. Maybe in one of crazy garbage mods. So its useless to talk about them.

I like it how you ignore how you were wrong about the maxims only getting nerfed but allright, i'll bite.

I decided I'd rather have a productive discussion rather than fling shit back and forth. maxims were nerfed at one point but I wouldn't know if they got buffed since so maybe you are right.

Remove 5% suppresion bulletin (no explanation needed...)

Nerf the turning time hard (if a maxim isn't set-up in the direction enemy inf is coming, it should lose and not be able to turn and win)

Increase received accuracy (if inf does manage to flank, it should die, not wait for second maxim to fire at inf squad)

OR ( as opposed to the rec.accruacy thing)

Increase reinforce cost (from 15 to 25)
Right now, its ridiculous manpower efficent to use maxims and as a support unit, that should not be.

Their suppression/set up is fine imo. They have a shittier arc for a reason, making flanking them much easier than a MG42 or MG34. Nerfing their effectiveness at doing their primary job would just make them never useful. The problem with maxims is spam, not 1-2 being used as support weapons.

All support weapons all have 1.25x received accuracy already don't they? I remember that being a change years ago, no idea if it was removed ever or not. Always hated it to be honest, because it just leads to bullshit like killing a weapons team from the front before they suppress you. If you're standing on top of a weapons team then you'll kill it quick enough without the bonus and it will be utterly defenseless.

Their reinforcement cost is artifically low, not sure why. It should be (unit cost*0.5)/2 and thus be 20 mp per reinforce.

I think their build time should be increased from 24 seconds 28 as well. This would make maxim spam builds hit the field a lot slower than say conscripts whereas right now they're equal. This will delay their early game map control and thus resource income.



P.S Zarok I would love to play a couple 1v1's sometime. Wouldn't mind being able to practice a bit against heavy maxim play! Steamid assassin2470 add me.

If suppression works the way it did in DoW2, it increases the cooldown on the unit by like 20x.

Maxim has the highest ROF and probably lowest cooldown or whatever so isn't hurt by this as much.

It's dumb because Maxim vs MG42 or vickers maxim always wins hard.

Yeah, I think it's because Maxim suppresses a single target it fires a full burst at pretty consistently so the suppression penalties are irrelevant to that (X4 cooldown, reload and X0.25 accuracy). And with the heightened reload times from suppression, reloading HMGs will give even pinned Maxims time to recover and shoot again so the Maxim will proceed to win the silly HMG duel with their superior single-target suppression. Once the other HMG is pinned, the fight's probably over because of said single-target suppression.

Also, i have no clue where the 84 and 90 comes from so please explain that (same as with the 150 mp reinforce).

Asking to explain multiplication table?

Yeah, I think it's because Maxim suppresses a single target it fires a full burst at pretty consistently so the suppression penalties are irrelevant to that (X4 cooldown, reload and X0.25 accuracy). And with the heightened reload times from suppression, reloading HMGs will give even pinned Maxims time to recover and shoot again so the Maxim will proceed to win the silly HMG duel with their superior single-target suppression. Once the other HMG is pinned, the fight's probably over because of said single-target suppression.

I remember qon lagleiz map my maxim in a building lost to mg42 in the same kind of building without doing any dmg to it. But there where 3 bulletins for 42 and none for maxim. Since then i never use them vs oh.
Does supression applies to units in buildings?

Mg42 spam is quite common. Dullahan was doing it against me without even buiding t1 just spam and try to basepin. Very abusive.
And what people tend to "forget" is that mg42 spammer has early and cheap access to sniper 99% of the games while maxim spammer dont have access to shitier sniper until the mid-late game or usuuly just never has acces to it since its bad and expensive to tech and reinfirce.

I remember qon lagleiz map my maxim in a building lost to mg42 in the same kind of building without doing any dmg to it. But there where 3 bulletins for 42 and none for maxim. Since then i never use them vs oh.
Does supression applies to units in buildings?

Mg42 spam is quite common. Dullahan was doing it against me without even buiding t1 just spam and try to basepin. Very abusive.
And what people tend to "forget" is that mg42 spammer has early and cheap access to sniper 99% of the games while maxim spammer dont have access to shitier sniper until the mid-late game or usuuly just never has acces to it since its bad and expensive to tech and reinfirce.

you're a fascinating "phenomen"

Reinforcement cost is calculated out of squad cost not model's. For most (or all) infantry its aprox half of the squad price. Dislike saying obvious things its like someone is trolling me.

None of your changes will be implemented. Nothing even similar will. Maybe in one of crazy garbage mods. So its useless to talk about them.

90/15= 6 (maxim reinforce cost i presume?) you see, the problem here is, you can't reinforce dead maxims.
so, the actual cost of maxim reinforcing would be 75 (5 man with the last man standing).

Seeing as you are unable to logiclly add up numbers or explain where the hell they come from i was taken aback by these seemingly arbitrary numbers you threw around.
Thats not even mentioning the lack of structure or logic in the rest of your "post".

And if my changes aren't worthy of discussion, why the hell did you reply to me in the first place?

Seems like you just huff and puff and than realise you're utterly wrong and try to make it sound like this isn't worthy of a discussion.

But sure, i am the trolling one..

Looking even more forward to our 1vs1 (if you still dare ofc).

P.S Zarok I would love to play a couple 1v1's sometime. Wouldn't mind being able to practice a bit against heavy maxim play! Steamid assassin2470 add me.

I'll keep this short, since most of my points are best proven in the 1vs1 (so yes, i accept that invite to be clear).

I would only like to say that pointing out someone is wrong is not "flinging shit"

That would be acusing someone of trolling, like aaa just did.

oh and the build time addition is nice, but only hampers you for the first few minutes/seconds
If you are to discourage spam, i would rather increase popcap.

Pls timer to grenadier rifle nades, how annoying it is when your MG gets oneshotted by one bastard 30 muni nade

Pls timer to grenadier rifle nades, how annoying it is when your MG gets oneshotted by one bastard 30 muni nade

Or low accuracy at distance. Zis is often used as AI and misses ussualy at long range. So 30% chance for rifle nade hit the target at long range seems fair.