AVRE - STURMTIGER

I don't see how this is even a debate - the Sturmtiger clearly has much more impact than an AVRE. Longer range, can fire into the fog of war through obstacles, faster projectile, much higher penetration and enough damage to 1-shot medium tanks. Hell, the AVRE was nerfed down from 640 damage because people complained about it one shotting tanks!

All this for a token amount of fuel more and less manpower. Really, for cost the Sturmtiger is massively overperforming relative to the AVRE. It should have had its cost increased when all the other OKW heavy call ins were adjusted but it was somehow overlooked.

+1

The fact you have to move back to base to reload sturmtiger even further increased the reload time. Avre can fire ~two shots for every one sturmtiger shot. You can dodge the sturms tiger shot as well unless you're camping hard and don't have LOS.

Its AOE isn't small at all. Its excellent for wiping blobs, ISGs, mortars, paks etc. If you have a hard time killing paks with AVRE you're doing it wrong.

move back to base LMAO what move behind your god damn flak truck fwd position counts as moving back to base?


Most 2v2 games if your a good player vs another set of good players comes down to VP points and usually one contested vp point. You can even fucking cap that vp point or contest it when it is a guarantee your gonna get hit by a nuclear bomb every time you attempt to cap it. Dont get me wrong i have won plenty of games against a sturm tiger but lately it is apparent how many advantages the sturm has period. It is a crutch for players who cannot out micro me tank vs tanks or inf vs inf they have to call out the auto matic wipe machine that for the rest of the game I have to be constantly worried about and stops me from being able to engage the enemy. sure flank etc etc but it is really, really difficult against good players to out flank that sturmtiger and swarm through the fucking sea of shrek mobs to take it out. im sure ill get some l2p awnswer its easy to counter as if the enemy will not try to stop you from getting to it like wtf?

If allies had a tool that auto wiped panthers and vetted shrek blobs it would be "unfair" oh wait we did avre despite its inferior capabilities but it wasnt alright to have that its ok OPkw does though. B4? unfair it one shots panthers shrek blobs etc not alright. sturm tiger is though it can one shot comets and like 2 squads of infantry by it all with one shot you couldnt even see coming. especially if you didnt even know it was on the field yet. That one shot just took the game from you though.

Did you just Quadra post? Jeez dude

No, there's an excellent post about how there are trade-offs between the avre and sturm.

What your proposing it just to mirror one another.

This would destroy the unique abilities each unit possesses.

Although I agree with you that the Sturmtiger shouldn't be able to fire into the fog of war, it should get debuffed in certain aspects not increase in costs.

It already comes out really late for let's be honest, blob counters. The fact that it's one shotting tanks is because players are letting there tanks sit literally on the front line just outside the FoW and not microing them.

This is the reason why people are getting punished so hard and it's such an issue. The shock value is high when this happens.

For those complaining about Sturm being able to shoot from FoW, if it's range was reduced then make it more responsive to when you do tell it to attack.

Sturm is fine. Also afaik it cant one shot a comet (doesnt it only do just enough to kill a normal medium?) and (like the old b4) only really shines if YOU (the opponent) sit still long enough for its 5(?) second ready/aim time OR they lead you (so YOU are predictable.
AVRE can become a meat shield in between firing and draws fire, take that how you will. It SHOULD probably pierce trees (hate trees eating shots) but aside from that its golden

Sturm is fine. Also afaik it cant one shot a comet (doesnt it only do just enough to kill a normal medium?) and (like the old b4) only really shines if YOU (the opponent) sit still long enough for its 5(?) second ready/aim time OR they lead you (so YOU are predictable.
AVRE can become a meat shield in between firing and draws fire, take that how you will. It SHOULD probably pierce trees (hate trees eating shots) but aside from that its golden

I hate to tell you this but firefights aren't over in 5 seconds.

sturm aoe got nerfed from 10 to 8..its fine now as it is otherwise u want to nerf it to ground

What did yesterdays tournament show us?


AVRE comes in... First shot it fires is out of LOS and over a shotblocker, destroying a leig and killing a Volks

If moving the Strumtiger back to base for reload isn't a disadvantage, we can add it to the AVRE without problem no?

If moving the Strumtiger back to base for reload isn't a disadvantage, we can add it to the AVRE without problem no?

I would take it without any questions if it means same range like a ST.

I would take it without any questions if it means same range like a ST.

So it is a disadvantage.

Thanks for clearing that up.

So it is a disadvantage.

Thanks for clearing that up.

If you need go in base, of course it is, but it does not affect rate of fire like someone is trying to prove. You don't use rocket arty just after cooldown has ended. You wait for a good target.
Same with AVRE you don't shoot right after shell is ready. Sometimes it can sit even fore over a minute before you pick a good target. Therefore going back to base won't affect your rate of fire, buecasue you don't shoot every 50secs.

If you need go in base, of course it is, but it does not affect rate of fire like someone is trying to prove. You don't use rocket arty just after cooldown has ended. You wait for a good target.
Same with AVRE you don't shoot right after shell is ready. Sometimes it can sit even fore over a minute before you pick a good target. Therefore going back to base won't affect your rate of fire, buecasue you don't shoot every 50secs.

I am certain that if you can reload sturmtiger on the move without any penelaties it will shoot alot more often.

I am certain that if you can reload sturmtiger on the move without any penelaties it will shoot alot more often.

Shooting more often does not mean the shots will be better.

I'd choose to shoot 2 times at juicy targets like blobs or tanks rather than 4 shots at single squad or completly miss.

What did yesterdays tournament show us?


AVRE comes in... First shot it fires is out of LOS and over a shotblocker, destroying a leig and killing a Volks

That shot came from nowhere out of LOS; Luvnest was already well aware that the AVRE was there. A Sturmtiger would have wiped much, much more, without even having to make its presence known beforehand.

The AVRE can fire over the following obstacles that also act as sight-blockers:
- Destroyed buildings
- Hedges
- Fences
- (and basically just about any obstacle that can let tank shots through)

So, yes. The AVRE can utilize sightblockers, but some Terra-forming might be required. However even then, it is very inconsistent.

The Sturmtiger can fire through any and every obstacle. The difference between through and over is that the projectile trajectory changes, which lets Sturmtiger shots arrive much faster than, say, this:


The major advantage that the AVRE has is that its reload-on-the move ability makes it act as a better blob repellent (is the Turret turning because it's about to fire the next shot or?). However, the Sturmtiger is on a completely different league (tank destroyer, range, shoot-through). What they both have in common is that neither unit is a blob punisher; they are both veterancy wipers.

EDIT:
I Just realized I haven't responded to the OP at all. The AVRE is by no means useless; it's actually quite strong for the price. You just have to find a way to better integrate with the rest of your army. Try the strategy subforum for advice.

edit is screwing my post up

Anyway, the Sturmtiger in Luvnests game would've needed to announce itself because there was units covering each others los.


Besides, the Sturmtiger still can collide with things.

Besides, the Sturmtiger still can collide with things.

Name those obstacles ST can collide with.

ground

ground

Like, elevation, you mean? (you have to realise that "ground" sounds a bit surreal ). I really didn't know this.

Anyway, the Sturmtiger in Luvnests game would've needed to announce itself because there was units covering each others los.

Who watches the watchers, though? There has to be at least one squad that is on the forefront.