Why 2 germans?

All axis factions during war had old equipment at the time

USSR too. USA use old equipment (tanks, AT-guns, rifles and etc) in pacific front.

because germans are cool?

Oh thank you Donnie

I dont know about warthunder but RUSE uses prototypes that weren't even constructed... Soviets used all variants of t-34 in 1944 so it is not an issue, also its not that you see the t-34/76 too often couse it sucks and nobody builds it Saying that germans didn't have better equipment than japan or italy in 1944 is just stupid, those two countries were with some exceptions still using WW1 tactics and weaponry while germans created and used weapons that are backbone of modern military forces like jet planes, hybrid engines, assault rifles, mechanised infantry, universal machineguns, guided rockets, intercontinental missiles and so on.

I can't speak for Japan (even if i would love to have them in CoH2), Italy didn't develop a vast variety of vehicles and weapons like Germans but Italians have enough stuffs to be put in CoH2. You wrote about guided rockets, intercontinental missiles and jet planes but do you use them? Are you able to use them?
Ww1 tactics ... I don't know, this sentence seems a bit stupid or exaggerated, because the only armies who fought in a very modern way of fighting were Germans and Soviets. And people aren't complaining about this.
Coh2 also keeps aside problems that affected Italians like shortage of resources, problem with supplying troops in Africa and tanks production.
Also the famous problem of fighting heavy tanks it's not a real problem because Italians developed many SPGs with high AT power, a 90mm AT and AA gun (Cannone da 90/53) and do you remember when USF didn't have Pershing? (And Pershing isn't that necessary unit to deal with other tanks), they still were able to win.
Italy maybe couldn't be a faction only because if game is really set in 1944 (I doubt it because eastern front armies are set during Kursk, while Italy was still fighting in the axis), but I want them anyway! And I think also much people would like to have them, a third German faction shouldn't exists.

Yeah it's crap but they insist on late war ETO multiplayer modes, because otherwise the Axis fans won't get their signature tigers, panthers etc. Setting it in the 39-40 period will allow a lot more faction diversity but then people will whine "WHEN TIGER COMMANDER RELEASE?"

So let me get this straight?

On the allied side there are three different distinct faction with USF, Brits, and USSR. Representing all the three big allied players.

But then on the axis there is Germans and... more Germans?

Where's Japan? Where's Italy? I'm honestly pretty disappointed, I kind of thought atleast one of them would be in the game with all the allies there.

Why would they do it like this?

Because the Axis strength in war was about 95% Germany. Italy simply sucked during WWII, losing everywhere all the time. Japan was a naval force with lots of ships and planes - both can't be used/controlled actively in Company of Heroes.
Both Allies of Germany were desperatly inferior to everything that the western Allies sent to war.

This was the Japanese main tank, the "Type 95 Ha-Go" which had the strength of no more than a Panzer II:

Show Spoiler

CoH is a game about infantry and tank micro.

Japan: Sucked at tanks
Italy: Sucked at tanks AND at infantry.

It's just that immediately when Italy or Japan is introduced, they'll be forced to delve very deep into fantasy tank territory to get them to be viable gameplay-wise. So it's not just a case of slight unrealism with "why Japan in Europe" or "why Italy in 44/45", it's neck-deep into fantasies right away.

People keep saying that this game is unrealistic to begin with, so any arguments based on history or realism are moot, but there are several levels of realism between total fantasy and total simulation.

At the moment we're still keeping with some kind of authentic feeling with regards to equipment, camo and factions, even though mixed allies and some of the weirder skins make me cringe a bit already. I'm hoping that they don't completely forsake all semblance of authenticity and go all-out World of Tanks with the game.

There's still enough unused German equipment for a third faction.

Afrika Korps?

Dem 88's

I can't speak for Japan (even if i would love to have them in CoH2), Italy didn't develop a vast variety of vehicles and weapons like Germans but Italians have enough stuffs to be put in CoH2. You wrote about guided rockets, intercontinental missiles and jet planes but do you use them? Are you able to use them?

Ww1 tactics ... I don't know, this sentence seems a bit stupid or exaggerated, because the only armies who fought in a very modern way of fighting were Germans and Soviets. And people aren't complaining about this.

British also used very modern tactics, actually they individually developed mechanised infantry with the invention of UC. They also had best radars at their disposal. Us forces were also very modern. Their armor and equipment may seem outdated but great usage of tanks and light vehicles combined with responsive and easy to call airforce and mobile artillery was what they used not only in europe but later in korea and vietnam so it was very innovative. And that actually wraps up all the factions we have in coh2.

Coh2 also keeps aside problems that affected Italians like shortage of resources, problem with supplying troops in Africa and tanks production.
Also the famous problem of fighting heavy tanks it's not a real problem because Italians developed many SPGs with high AT power, a 90mm AT and AA gun (Cannone da 90/53) and do you remember when USF didn't have Pershing? (And Pershing isn't that necessary unit to deal with other tanks), they still were able to win.
Italy maybe couldn't be a faction only because if game is really set in 1944 (I doubt it because eastern front armies are set during Kursk, while Italy was still fighting in the axis), but I want them anyway! And I think also much people would like to have them, a third German faction shouldn't exists.

Thats why I wrote about some exceptions. They had pretty good semovente assault guns, AA guns and great fighter planes. But apart from that you have only ships that were good. In my opinion its not enough. Coh2 is divided into game phases, in early game you need a good light vehicle, they could get an early tankette so its ok. But then in the mid game you need mobile, well armed medium tank. Hard to find one in italian army, they most often used pz3s and pz4s as their core medium tank. If you put semovente there it would make them defensive only faction as turettless vehicle will be countered by AT guns or TDs no matter what. Then you have the late game and you still have neither medium tank to swarm like usf nor a heavy tank to keep you on the field like germans or soviets. Makes you a bit like soviets with useless doctrine but worse All you can give them at this stage is artillery and AA gun emplacement but that sounds incredibly boring...

I would also love to have polish faction but you know, its not possible becouse all you would have to play with after early game would be partisans... Its much better idea to make unique italian commander for one of axis factions.

Japan: Sucked at tanks

Type 3 Chi-Nu is no worst then T-34-76.

Type 3 Chi-Nu is no worst then T-34-76.

Problem is, it was never used in battle. All the other vehicles we have in coh2 have seen action, even if in some cases not much of it.

As for the sucking at tanks perspective this is a great example. They developed a prototype of tank in 1944 that was equal to a tank mass produced and used widely by soviet union in 1941. So yeah, they were pretty much far behind.

Type 3 Chi-Nu is no worst then T-34-76.

Except for the fact that T34 was manufactored in tens of thousands and Type 3 was literally 60 units.

I do not believe in the Japanese release, but the reason is not only and not so much in the lack of tanks.

Problem is, it was never used in battle. All the other vehicles we have in coh2 have seen action, even if in some cases not much of it.

CoH2 far from history, reality and even logic. Who care about "it was never used in battle".

Except for the fact that T34 was manufactored in tens of thousands and Type 3 was literally 60 units.

It's still more then Pums, Ostwinds, Sturmtigers, and etc.

2 germams because this game was made with aim to common people of western europe and north america.
Still no nashorns\jagdpanthers. And where is my StuG\StuH IV ? Where is nebelwerfer?
Hell, they didnt even make anything about French Resistance

And what about reds? Current SU looks like poor version of vcoh1 USF where good backbone infantry and potent medium tank were lost during copy-paste
There can be second unique soviet faction with all stuff they left behind

It's still more then Pums, Ostwinds, Sturmtigers, and etc.

True for the ostwinds and STs, but there was much more pumas around.

I know the truth is hard, but japan had NO ground forces to fight off early war soviet armor, there is nothing that would even pose a mild threat for pershing or IS-2.

Hell, KV-1 would roll over most of japan armor with ease.

Most of the Japanese Tanks & Vehicles were ambitious designs. Also please dont start on Italy or France. Yes I would be intrested too for third faction for Axis but It has to be Third Reich.

Panzer Elite was good as a design. There were OP abilities and never used units yes, but It was uniqe. But When they made OKW they kinda cheated from PE. If OKW was more cool faction, they could make PE for CoH2 too. Ofcourse there is a chance of Relic making a great thrid faction but I highly doub we ever see one. In fact I'm so sure that this is the end; If Relic releases another faction I will giveaway 20 of them here in this forum.

Type 3 Chi-Nu is no worst then T-34-76.

Having no more than 60 tanks produced that were not much better than the T-34/76 which was produced more than 10.000 times is somehow a definition of being bad at tank manufacturing. Yes, the Sturmtiger was produced even less but it at least saw the battle and was designed for a very specific role in battle and no main battle tank like the Panzer IV, Tiger, M4, T-34, etc, which the Chi-nu should have been. The Chi-Nu was designed to defend the Japanese Main Islands which were never invaded.

Japan never faced intensive tank battles that took place in Europe so they don't only have reliable tanks but also no good AT guns (the Type-1 37mm AT gun was only able to destroy a M3 under favorable conditions).

If a Japanese faction had problems against the USF light tanks, how should it fight against the Pershing, Cromwell, IS-2, etc?

British also used very modern tactics, actually they individually developed mechanised infantry with the invention of UC. They also had best radars at their disposal. Us forces were also very modern. Their armor and equipment may seem outdated but great usage of tanks and light vehicles combined with responsive and easy to call airforce and mobile artillery was what they used not only in europe but later in korea and vietnam so it was very innovative. And that actually wraps up all the factions we have in coh2.



Thats why I wrote about some exceptions. They had pretty good semovente assault guns, AA guns and great fighter planes. But apart from that you have only ships that were good. In my opinion its not enough. Coh2 is divided into game phases, in early game you need a good light vehicle, they could get an early tankette so its ok. But then in the mid game you need mobile, well armed medium tank. Hard to find one in italian army, they most often used pz3s and pz4s as their core medium tank. If you put semovente there it would make them defensive only faction as turettless vehicle will be countered by AT guns or TDs no matter what. Then you have the late game and you still have neither medium tank to swarm like usf nor a heavy tank to keep you on the field like germans or soviets. Makes you a bit like soviets with useless doctrine but worse All you can give them at this stage is artillery and AA gun emplacement but that sounds incredibly boring...

I would also love to have polish faction but you know, its not possible becouse all you would have to play with after early game would be partisans... Its much better idea to make unique italian commander for one of axis factions.

About Italians, i made a faction proposal on the official forum, but unfortunatly the forum is out of order.
However, i obviously made a copy on a word document, to keep changing what i think could be wrong or get better. The Italian army i made isn't a only defensive faction but both offensive and defensive depending on the tier you built. They're also very different from the 2 german armies not only because of no heavy tanks.
I would like to show it to you but it's a very long document so it'll be stupid and also impossible to copy it on this post nor i would make a post because here many people seems to be unable to think about adding more factions:
- Italians: suck, i hate pizza, Al Capone, Italians and their wooden tanks, Italians and their banana rifles, surrender, ...
- Japanese: BANZAIII! Zero, Naval Forces, and nothing else
- French: surrender, baguette, and nothing else
- Polish: jews, horses (as if other armies didn't use them)

In my honest opinion, those factions should be included.
Italian, Japanese and Polish armies i think they should take place in Company of Heroes 2.
For France i'm a bit undecided between France or Commonwealth because the UKF are only Britishmen, while you should include a faction consisting of Aussies, South Africans, Indians, Canadians and so on.
France could be an option, the Free French Army of 1944-1945, french troops with their best vehicles, artilleries and aircrafts of 1940 + american/british stuffs not used in the current armies that could be given to them to fill the gaps.
Or maybe the faction could be the Commonwealth forces and the French Forces could be a commander for USF.

Armies composition is OK for Italians, Japanese i think they might have everything OK
For Poland it's the same as France, they would have their infantry forces and their best stuffs in 1939 + soviet tanks and artilleries not used in the soviet army in CoH2. This Polish faction should sound like the Polish Armed Forces supporting the Red Army.

What do you think?

The multiplayer is obviously set around 1943/44 (Ostheer, Soviets) to 1944/45 (UKF, Amis, OKW). By that time there are no significant Axis Powers left but Germany and Japan. The latter is on the other side of the globe and defending islands. Hardly suitable for this game.

The Italians, or rather the northern part have been turned into a mere puppet state like the Romanians and Hungary. The Finnish actually mind their own business and aren´t an Axis power but a co-belligerent. And they all use lighter equipment or have gotten the somewhat heavier stuff from the Germans (109s, StuGs, Panzerfaust). It´s not advisable to design a whole faction based on this.

So I think this pretty much explains why there´s two German factions.

Japan never faced intensive tank battles that took place in Europe so they don't only have reliable tanks but also no good AT guns (the Type-1 37mm AT gun was only able to destroy a M3 under favorable conditions).

Yeah, jungle islands is not the best place for tank battles.

If a Japanese faction had problems against the USF light tanks, how should it fight against the Pershing, Cromwell, IS-2, etc?

I know the truth is hard, but japan had NO ground forces to fight off early war soviet armor, there is nothing that would even pose a mild threat for pershing or IS-2.
Hell, KV-1 would roll over most of japan armor with ease.

This problem can be solved. Cheap mines, aviation and artillery support (brits arty cover show this good) and Kamikaze. I google 1 minute and find japan sort of PAK38 aka Type 1 47mm Anti-Tank Gun.

Need only one - a decision. But I do not think it will be done in favor of the Japanese. Damn, these guys can't fix obvious bugs fast enough. And the removal of obvious balance errors take YEARS.

The multiplayer is obviously set around 1943/44 (Ostheer, Soviets) to 1944/45 (UKF, Amis, OKW). By that time there are no significant Axis Powers left but Germany and Japan. The latter is on the other side of the globe and defending islands. Hardly suitable for this game.

The Italians, or rather the northern part have been turned into a mere puppet state like the Romanians and Hungary. The Finnish actually mind their own business and aren´t an Axis power but a co-belligerent. And they all use lighter equipment or have gotten the somewhat heavier stuff from the Germans (109s, StuGs, Panzerfaust). It´s not advisable to design a whole faction based on this.

So I think this pretty much explains why there´s two German factions.

1943 we still have the Kingdom of Italy, if i remember well the eastern front armies were set during the battle of Kursk, because theater of war stopped with Southern Fronts to tell what happened before Kursk and then before the battle begins we have the multiplayer armies.
Anyway as you know Kursk was July-August 1943 while Italy capitulated in September 1943, if we have to be rigorous, Italy could join CoH2 because of 1-2 months before the capitulation.