Remove Terminator Vet OR Buff Axis Elite

Sure they are too strong!

They should rely more on these early game weapon crews like Ost, Sov or UKF!
Oh wait...

They should rely on locked in another tier stock elite infantry like axis armies!
Wait...

They should rely on early arriving, supplementing them doctrinal elite infantry like OKW or Sov!
Wait a sec...

They should rely on that T0/right of the bat T1 early vehicle like OKW, USF or Sov!
Oh wait...

Pull your head out of your rear.
They don't start with nades, contrary to all axis infantry, they need to invest fuel to get them, just like they need to to get weapons. No one starts with ambulance, because its beyond retarded and smoke doesn't cost 10 muni and yes, it negates MG42, because that is its friggin purpose-whining about it is equally stupid as whining about sniper sniping models.

Don't know what dreamland you live in, but you just rage answer to everything. Don't care dream on and 10muni/15muni smoke grenade to force 260mp unit to be useless, yes not useful at all. And same person says you have to rely on them, because your core infantry can't win...you are so consistent with your answers make me laugh

ps. My point was that it's too cheap, need cost more munitions. Not that it's too powerful, but the access to it and ease of use is way too cheap + powerful atm.

USF is so shitty that i guess they deserve for this vet3 especially when this is 4vs4 mod maybe in 1vs1 they are OP i little bit but werfer easliy counter all US army

Don't know what dreamland you live in, but you just rage answer to everything. Don't care dream on and 10muni/15muni smoke grenade to force 260mp unit to be useless, yes not useful at all. And same person says you have to rely on them, because your core infantry can't win...you are so consistent with your answers make me laugh

ps. My point was that it's too cheap, need cost more munitions. Not that it's too powerful, but the access to it and ease of use is way too cheap + powerful atm.

smoke should cost 50 muni

Don't know what dreamland you live in, but you just rage answer to everything. Don't care dream on and 10muni/15muni smoke grenade to force 260mp unit to be useless, yes not useful at all. And same person says you have to rely on them, because your core infantry can't win...you are so consistent with your answers make me laugh

Let me in you on a little secret then:

Smoke doesn't root you, you can still move and reposition.

You're delusional if you keep ignoring 25 fuel cost upgrade for smoke.

If there is early smoke, there won't be early vehicle, which means your sniper have lots of free kills to do. If there is early tech, there won't be smoke to counter HMGs.

I'm sorry, but if you can't position your units properly and react to that happens on the field, you'll always be a loser.

I'm very consistent.
Its you who is completely unable to get a grip on how soft and hard counters work in the game.
You live in some enclosed world of yours where only 1v1 battles between units happen and you're always at disadvantage. Perhaps if its always like this for you, you just need to get good?

Isn't Vet mechanic broken atm ? Sooo... how could we say that it is Veterancy that makes those units terminators ?

It is and because of that units are much less lethal and much more durable then it was intended.

actually, the terminator vet is one of the few vet that's actually working. The issue with weapon bonus doesn't affect the dodging bonus.

I know very well that received accuracy vet works on most units (including the Riflemen).

However, what I meant is the following:
1. Offensive accuracy (which is meant to somewhat counter received accuracy) isn't applied properly
2. Since Axis infantry veterancy is more heavily oriented towards offensive veterancy, they are the ones that are affected the most by the bug
3. Losing offensive veterancy = longer firefights = fewer models lost on approach for attacker (Riflemen, shocks) = grens drop lie flies
4. Once the bug is fixed, we should expect the performance gap between Allied infantry to narrow
5. No, I don't know which way the balance will swing after the Vet bug is fixed, but I expect LMGs to be even stronger

Cause this is Monday, official forums should be ready soon™ and somehow this thread has 76 post i'll try to fix it up.

First of all a TL;DR:
Show Spoiler

PD: use paragraphs and b/ i/ u/.

OP is complaining mainly about vet3 double 1919 rifles and cons (lol) blobs. Squad pacing affecting 4 man squads and OH having no "elite" infantry.

I'm gonna transform this into something more reasonable:

+1
but a small correction its cons ppsh blobs(which are not performing due to broken vet as their damage is sread out among individual models).

Some people are using the boroken vet card but the units whose last model deals the most damage mostly lmg grens,rifles,obers are still unaffected by it and the units like rifles and obers which have mostly defensive bonus are least touched...Tommies and cons are getting affected majorly so yeah after the fix cons ppsh blob will be real..i can tell you that.Also captain,lieutanant only have offensve bonus so yeah usf infy can be more lethal after fix...on the other hand falls are mixbag can't tell how they are affected.

Let me in you on a little secret then:

Smoke doesn't root you, you can still move and reposition.

You're delusional if you keep ignoring 25 fuel cost upgrade for smoke.

If there is early smoke, there won't be early vehicle, which means your sniper have lots of free kills to do. If there is early tech, there won't be smoke to counter HMGs.

I'm sorry, but if you can't position your units properly and react to that happens on the field, you'll always be a loser.

I'm very consistent.
Its you who is completely unable to get a grip on how soft and hard counters work in the game.
You live in some enclosed world of yours where only 1v1 battles between units happen and you're always at disadvantage. Perhaps if its always like this for you, you just need to get good?

Just love your rage answers, give me more ^^

You're confusing rage with information, perhaps this is why you have such incredible resistance to it

actually, the terminator vet is one of the few vet that's actually working. The issue with weapon bonus doesn't affect the dodging bonus.

Only the defensive buffs are working right now meaning all offensive ones aren't as we have stated thought the thread.

Only the defensive buffs are working right now meaning all offensive ones aren't as we have stated thought the thread.

Ain't ability cooldown vet and sight buffs and the like fine still? They wouldn't be applied to weapons so I figure they should be good.

Ain't ability cooldown vet and sight buffs and the like fine still? They wouldn't be applied to weapons so I figure they should be good.

Cool downs work as they apply to the model as well as LOS. The offensives stats are tied with the weapon and once it is dropped the next model doesn't get the new improved gun.

Cool downs work as they apply to the model as well as LOS. The offensives stats are tied with the weapon and once it is dropped the next model doesn't get the new improved gun.

Ok good, I had the right idea.

Cool downs work as they apply to the model as well as LOS. The offensives stats are tied with the weapon and once it is dropped the next model doesn't get the new improved gun.

That's not true either.

All problematic stats are tied to the entity. The offensive stats mean that:
- Whichever weapon that entity is holding will get buffed
- When the vetted entity gets swaps to a new weapon, that weapon also gets buffed
- When the entity drops a weapon/etc, the weapon does not retain the buff

Thus:
- Small squads have a very small pool of members upon which the offensive veterancy is stored (and wiped)
- Slotted weapons (e.g., LMGs) automatically transfer to the oldest (most vetted member)
- However, LMGs do NOT make your squad immune to losing the veterancy; once all original models have been replaced the weapon will be picked up by a newbie

Luckily, you don't have to rely of grenspam to deal with lmg rifles. The lack of grenades with these units and the very low on the move dps make the LMG rifles very vulnerable to the HMG+sniper combo.

Also why do you completely neglect G43 upgrades but put PTRS up as an upgrade for conscripts?

As for your solution: 5 gren double LMGs would be insane. They would vastly outperform double lmg rifles despite being cheaper to buy, cheaper to upgrade, and require no doctrine to get. USF also has no snipers or any elite infantry to counter them. They would also walk over Soviets, who not only have no stock elite infantry, they also do not get stock weapon upgrades. Their sniper is also not that good compared to the Ostheer one.

But seriously though: Wehr has the counters to 2x LMG rifles. Giving them the firepower to just straight up kill the most expensive infantry squads in the game with their own basic infantry will just wreck balance and cause even more power-creep.

What? I think you're missing some stuff; Rifles have nades, BARS are amazing on-the-move (that's the point of them), and the whole "smoke and flank" thing is basically a meme on how to counter HMGs.

Honestly, I don't see 5-man 2-LMG squads being that "insane". The increase in size would increase the base cost (by 56, to ~296, call it 300mp), would increase the reinforce cost by 30 when going from 1 model (90 to 120), and would cost the exact same to upgrade; the BAR is 60m, and the M1918 is 70m, the Gren LMG is 60m.

I'm not asking for the firepower for grens > rifles all day every day. I'm asking for grens to be equal in certain situations, which they should be, due to reinforce cost. Right now the only hope of grens winning vs. 2xbar is by using green cover and hoping that the rifles stay in yellow or worse and stay at range. Vs. 2x M1918 it's even worse, since their range advantage quickly disappears. They still couldn't fire on the move, they'd still be horrible at close range, and their reinforce would still be the highest in the game, and after upgrading, would be the highest costing T0/1 mainline inf in the game.

You'd be right if Ost didn't had access to best HMG in game and sniper.
But they do, no one in his right mind spams grens vs rifles, because thats about the worst thing you can do. Rifles hardcounter grens, not the other way around.

Ost have way more tools at any time then other any allied faction, USF have rifles exclusively at early game. Obviously rifles will beat grens at all stages, that is their intended role and balance.

You can't have wide selection of supporting units AND mainline infantry as strong as opponent, when opponent have ONLY that infantry to pay with.

Then what justifies Gren's 30mp reinforce cost and higher per-model base cost?

Then what justifies Gren's 30mp reinforce cost and higher per-model base cost?



Nothing. The only justification is free AT snare and riflenade upgrade. It's just a broken unit left in the dust due to new factions lol. Same with so many other units. After say 3-6 months and relic finally realizes how bad a mainline infantry is, they'll tweak it a bit. Perfect example, conscripts. They had that chance to instantly die to flames removed and buffed vet 3 after being left in the dust for 2 years.

However it is true that OST has other options to counter mainline spam which is mg, mortar, and sniper. You could say USF has MG too! however, they can't build theirs until 50 fuel T1 upgrade where as OST is T0... They buffed MGs in general due to these blobs anyhow.

Then what justifies Gren's 30mp reinforce cost and higher per-model base cost?

Exactly the same thing that justified volks reinforcing cheaper then grens despite being more expensive.

Model count in squad.

Exactly the same thing that justified volks reinforcing cheaper then grens despite being more expensive.

Model count in squad.

So by having less models in the squad, thus having less time in combat (due to % loss), and being more susceptible to being 1-shot by AoE, they deserve a higher reinforce cost.


That makes no sense.

So by having less models in the squad, thus having less time in combat (due to % loss), and being more susceptible to being 1-shot by AoE, they deserve a higher reinforce cost.


That makes no sense.

240/4/2=30.

280/5/2=28.

3x30=90

4x28=112

90 is 37% of 240.

112 is 40% of 280.

Math says it makes perfect sense.

In fact(cons):

240/6/2=20

5x10=100

100 is 41%

Math says grens reinforce for slightly LESS then other squads in comparison to conscripts for example.