Replace spio with vgren as okw starting unit

I disagree with people who start out by attacking my game knowledge in an effort to put me on the defensive.

Maybe you are on the defensive because you are wrong.

If you read through the thread I am only arguing with the people that attack me personally as opposed to the argument.

So basically you are ignoring real counterarguments and just focus on calling everyone in the thread trolls?

No - stop spreading this smut.

Every mode is allied favorable right now, even 4s.

I just hosted a tournament of 8 of the best 4v4 teams and every single match was won by the allies by a huge margin.

If you actually cared about this game and wanted a balanced game you would stop this nonsense.

how did the finals went gdot? they were set for a day but i cant find anyhting about it. did allies really win 100% of all games? how many games were it?

how did the finals went gdot? they were set for a day but i cant find anyhting about it. did allies really win 100% all games? how many games were it?

I believe there were 4 or 5 teams and each team played allies and axis. The allies won every game.

I believe there were 4 or 5 teams and each team played allies and axis. The allies won every game.

All of them AT and high level.

i do, the reason for the sandbags is that they can't close next to them, and also if you had a second squad near, they would benefit from sturms not having cover against them. But that test proves your's wrong.

Not sure how much difference would it make, but you should enable fog of war.

how did the finals went gdot? they were set for a day but i cant find anyhting about it. did allies really win 100% of all games? how many games were it?

Soon™

Anyhoo after all of that bitching has been done- the question still stands.

Why do they get a pioneer squad that doesn't need to build really anything?

They can't build fuel caches or emplacements (non doc) & they don't need to build base structures.

I'm not buying into the arguments for strat etc... just answer this question.

Why do they get a pioneer squad that doesn't need to build really anything?

Same reason soviets have 6 man squads, brits can build emplacements, USF have termiator rifleman, and oh support weapons outclass all others in their job.

Asymmetrical balance.

Anyhoo after all of that bitching has been done- the question still stands.

Why do they get a pioneer squad that doesn't need to build really anything?

They can't build fuel caches or emplacements (non doc) & they don't need to build base structures.

I'm not buying into the arguments for strat etc... just answer this question.

Repairs, wire, sweeping, mines.

Yeah but they don't need to build that stuff in the initial deployment stage.

Let me rephrase- why do they need a starting pioneer unit if they don't need to build anything in the deployment stage.

Yeah but they don't need to build that stuff in the initial deployment stage.

Let me rephrase- why do they need a starting pioneer unit if they don't need to build anything in the deployment stage.

Not really if you just think it like that, but what are you trying to say here? Replacing them with volks would make okw just way more blobby than it already is.

I think you meant to say:

"greetings friends, I am having trouble against OKW initial opening. Here is a replay and what I have been doing - hopefully you can give me some pointers."

Complaining about axis being OP is just going to make you look foolish and lack credibility. This is why people are 'attacking' you.

These are exactly my thoughts about this thread, once you learn to play against this opening it's nothing that hard to deal with

But obviously this isn't a l2p issue and must be about balance because you can't win it 100% of the times Kappa

Dear Op,

this post this post has completely disproved your claims. Instead of agreeing and seeing that your personal experiences actually don't stand up to objective testing, you continue on sticking to your false claim by which your lose respect and your credibility in this forum.

Additional thoughts to your suggestion:

• Volksgren spam is seen critical by many players, your suggestion would just increase the spam, negatively impacting on the game

• Sturmpios scale rather bad, their advantage lies in being strong in early game, acceptable in mid game and cost ineffective in late game, unless you have vet 4 on them.
  

• It's been since release like this and most players know how to deal with Sturmpios, that's why you don't hear those claims for top or veteran players, since having issues with Sturmpios indicate 'learn to play' issues

• Feel free to visit the strategy section, with a thread that helps you to deal with the problem. If you still have problems (which I highly doubt) you can very well come back and do another whine post

Dear Op,

this post this post has completely disproved your claims. Instead of agreeing and seeing that your personal experiences actually don't stand up to objective testing, you continue on sticking to your false claim by which your lose respect and your credibility in this forum.

OBJECTIVE TESTING!!! AHAHAHAHAAHAH!

This post shows what EVERYONE already knows AND it has NOTHING to do with what I was talking about.

Absolutely nothing.

This video is so biased against my argument it HURTS to watch because it has NOTHING in it that I was talking about originally. He has created a video that cherry picks exactly what he wanted to show without taking into consideration that I was never even using USF or UKF as a baseline to begin with.

Everyone knows a factions vanilla rifle group in green cover will take down an idiotic and suicidal frontal assault from spios. I play primarily SU which means I have to deal with spios nearly wiping whole squads in the early game on a regular basis. In his video you see it almost happening as well. A little RNG magic would have wiped the con squad. You want unbiased proof? Run that con test 20 times. You want more? Have them go up against CEs which is what my original post was talking about in the first place anyway. You want EVEN MORE?!!?!? Have then flank like a non-idiot would.

I have given the idea a lot of thought and will usually, when the situation demands it, oorah! away from spios to give distance if I meet them in the open while I bring another nearby squad to help. I know from experience that it is incredibly important to drop that first model on a spio squad before they get too close. If I have 2 squads of cons I will usually just stand still and it is enough. Same with con and CE. If 2 spio vs 2 cons in the open, oorah! in opposite direction for as long as you can to provide the most distance cover and get behind something green. Focus down one then the other. If there is no cover available and you are doing ok in the MP department you can also stager your retreat by oorah!ing away to max range and stand up one con squad to put fire on the as the other continues to fall back. Once the spios make it half the truesight distance have the falling back cons turn to fire as the forward cons begin to fall back. You usually only get 2 rounds of this before you either have to hit "T" or RNGesus shows you his blessing but this is incredibly rare in a vet 0 situation. This also only works in the early game when you don't have as much to focus on as it requires strict attention to be efficient.

All of this marches towards the inevitable conclusion that OKW is a faction that requires less micro to achieve results.

But you wanted to switch spios with volks/ nerf them.

The point in that video was to disprove the previous post about spios winning against tommies almost always.

I also added other mainline infantry there because when thinking about nerfs to one unit, you have to look at how the unit performs against other similiar squads in the early game. If you nerf spios they will be useless against anything but cons.

And here comes the known solution = Buff cons. Cons have been "somewhat useful" for a long time now and people want to buff (slightly) them, but you go for a mindless okw rant that won't help anybody and try to defend your playstyle and ideas, that isn't clearly good for the game.

But for now we have to just wait and see what relic does, they did say in their stream that they are looking into changing maxims and buffing penals, im hoping they will also address the conscript issue then or maybe that isn't needed after the maxim change & penal buff

*Long ass post*

Do you actually realize that this topic have been discussed 1000 times already and the outcome is always the same, aka Spios are fine as starter units

Do you actually realize that this topic have been discussed 1000 times already and the outcome is always the same, aka Spios are fine as starter units

I am sure it has been discussed and that I am not the only one that has an issue/trouble with dealing with it.

Another possible way to deal with it is to change things so that a truck converting to a building would require a spio to build. As in the truck starts the building but a spio has to construct it. This might force OKW to be more conservative in the very early game with the spio in order to have proper timing.

Or as others have suggested, change the way kubels interact with capture points.

I can admit that in my OP I was singularly frustrated with an issue that was cropping up multiple times but I still maintain that most of the suggestions made (ignoring L2Ps) still create an unfair advantage to the OKW player on small 1v1 maps in regards to tech timings. I often come away from these matches feeling that unless I play everything perfectly in the first 2-3 minutes I will have a very uphill battle ahead of me. Of course this also depends on how aggressive the OKW player is.

My real problem as a player, the thing holding me back most as far as I can see is understanding when to transition from early to mid. I often lose games in the 15-20 minute period because I did not know how to convert early game successes into mid game gains. I need to be more aware of what my successes mean regarding the enemies ability to project influence on the field and capitalize appropriately. Sometimes this means being more aggressive and sometimes it means going ham to punish mistakes. I have an innate fear of making mistakes which often causes me to squander opportunities.

If that means I need to L2P then so be it. I just wish people would be a little less shitty about it.

[edit]

I think it also comes from not being able to historically trust most SU units to perform.

Yeah but they don't need to build that stuff in the initial deployment stage.

Let me rephrase- why do they need a starting pioneer unit if they don't need to build anything in the deployment stage.

LOL you can call them "sturm infantry" not a pio ))

I also added other mainline infantry there because when thinking about nerfs to one unit, you have to look at how the unit performs against other similiar squads in the early game. If you nerf spios they will be useless against anything but cons.

And here comes the known solution = Buff cons. Cons have been "somewhat useful" for a long time now and people want to buff (slightly) them, but you go for a mindless okw rant that won't help anybody and try to defend your playstyle and ideas, that isn't clearly good for the game.

You are absolutely right. Slightly buffing cons would be a far better solution than nerfing spios. I only started playing UKF last night when I bought them during the sale. They have no trouble at all with spios in or out of cover and it was almost scary how effective they can be. I kept panicking because I only had 3-4 infantry but it almost always turned out OK. It's funny how playing them has opened my eyes. I had USF but rarely played them as I found them to be boring.

Here is the secret to beating the tar out of OKW early game as Brits, and by early game I mean the initial engagement when Sturmpios are a terrifying threat:

Build a Bren first.

Seriously. Do it.

Not only does the Bren nullify the Kubel rush, it will also shred Volks and especially Sturmpios. Additionally, the Bren has enough mobility to reach the field and safeguard your Tommies while they're building a front line trench on an important point.

Of course, I'm speaking of 2v2 match-ups here as I do not play 1v1. It might be different in that game mode, but I've had a lot of success rushing Bren against OKW players because they are very predictable and generally do the same exact thing every game.