Help vs Double Arnold Schwarzeneggers

So how do you guys react to 2xsturms charging into your cutoff early game, supported by the kubel? Do you wait for the m20? Bars? Stuart.




Using cover etc is meaningless since rifles only work at midrange, where sturms shine as well.

I am not an expert, but recently hit rank 650 USF.

Keep in mind Sturms are expensive + take extremely long to build compared to volks.

If you're in green cover and they charge in the open against your rifles, you'll win the fight most of the time, if 1v1. And if it doesn't, take a 2nd rifle squad to assist. But from what I've experienced, rifles win against charging sturms when in green cover.
2rifles -> 2 sturms imo aswell. Just play smart and focus 1 squad down first rather than both at the same time + use buildings.

The moment he has his kubel out, you'll indeed have to wait for stuart/capt or m20. But if his kubel stays with his sturms, you can capp the other sides of the map, he'll have no map control whatsoever, abuse it.

So in a nutshell, don't fight sturm+kubel combo in the early game, just avoid it. It won't take long till you have capt/m20

And I personally don't recommend fighting a kubel in a 1v1, as you'll bleed while he doesn't.

Building control is arguably the most important factor in those early engagements. Control of key structures can easily spin games in your favor against Sturm-heavy starts as they cannot easily engage garissoned infantry. Even Rear Echelons can do quite some damage from inside structures and Rifles are devastating.

As for general counters, try using your RE's to cap the other side of the map and deny him resources while you push him off with rifles. Sturms only have a clear advantage at close range and. Also remember that with him squatting on your cutoff, your forces only have to travel a short distance to engage while he cannot easily hold ground against the increasing riflemen. Worst case scenario he has your cutoff and you have his.

There are so many different variables that it is difficult to give one answer and in these situations a replay would be best to illustrate the situation that you are having problems with. If this is super early game and you literally have 2 rifles and your first RE and your opponent goes for your cut-off with 2 sturms and a kubel then he hasn't capped anything so he has essentially cut himself off of resources as well. If he does this after you have a few more units out then you should be looking at setting up a flank to retake your cut-off.

Big thing to remember when you do get cut-off is don't panic and don't bleed more than necessary. Indirect fire, vehicles and ATGs are all good things to get when your opponent is going for a super aggressive start like this if you can't regain your cut-off in a couple minutes of flanking. Indirect fire will soften the enemy position, vehicles are mobile and will lend to stronger flanks, and ATGs are cheap in terms of fuel (which you won't have much of seeing as how you got cut-off from your resources).

One last thing that comes to mind is that most cut-offs only cut-off one side so if you are getting cut-off, just switch sides.

Once again, replays are much more effective for understanding the situation and advice will be way better with than without.

In my experience 2 sturms will beat a lone rifle and re inside buildings,so be wary of staying in buildings as some only have a few windows and you may get wiped.
I find only engage if you have two squads and have range and cover advantage

thank you for not posting this in the balance forum

thank you for not posting this in the balance forum

You must be the most useless commenter in history dude. Every post you make is a total shitpost.
Congratz!

On topic;

I don't really understand how this can be a problem. By the time the OKW player has 2 sturms and a kubel, you should have around 3 rifles (taking in account the time it needs for them to run across the map to your cutoff). How is this a problem to defend your cutoff?

and all the threads in the balance forum are so useful and not pointless whining

sure thing, captain

Using cover etc is meaningless since rifles only work at midrange, where sturms shine as well.

lol

if a sturm approaches a rifle in green cover he won't be having a good time. it's all about positioning.

Speaking of cover... A guide said that cover in not taken into account at a range of 10 or less except for building cover which is always green cover. Can anyone confirm that as although it makes sense I find it to be a sort of funky mechanic (if it is even correct).

The key is to face off against the two Arnold Schwarzeneggers from "Twins" and "Junior" and not the ones from Terminator and Predator - it's all about picking your battles man.

Though SPioneers can be annoying I have a rollout that seems to work 90% of the time to prevent SPioneers from thwarting my plans. (bear with me, I play on team matches, not 1v1).

I "overextend" with my Rear Echelon and hold point somewhere in the middle of the map I want to focus on, closer to the enemy, behind cover. With the enemy guarenteed to show up within the next 30 seconds.

I have 2 riflemen queued up, and depending on how soon we get munitions I either queue up Grenades or an Ambulance (the most OP vehicle in game). My Rear Echelons kite the SPioneers keeping as much distance (since Rear Echelon are mid-ranged units) towards my oncoming Riflemen, who further cause more damage. At this point the SPioneers should be down to 2 men. If they stay when my 3rd rifleman 2nd Rifleman comes up, they are guarenteed to die unless RNJesus damns me. With the Grenades queued up I can then deal with any support Volks that come up, and with an Ambulance I never need to retreat early-game (just walk a few paces back after losing 2 men in a squad, since I can replenish while under fire as long as I am in uncontested territory).

Yeah, it took 3 infantry to take out 1 SPioneer, but if there are multiple, my other two Rifles should be able to force the other SPioneers to retreat (and they can't be spammed early game), and the amazing thing is that the Riflemen stay relevant all game (and farm some early EXP).

Using cover etc is meaningless since rifles only work at midrange, where sturms shine as well.

lol

if a sturm approaches a rifle in green cover he won't be having a good time. it's all about positioning.

Yeah, a riflesquad in green cover actually wins sturms in green cover at long-mid range. If he's closing in, he will take a lot of damage if he doesn't go through cover.

1. Don't go into close, don't engage when outnumbert by 10x.
2. Profit
3. GG

At this point the SPioneers should be down to 2 men. If they stay when my 3rd rifleman 2nd Rifleman comes up, they are guarenteed to die unless RNJesus damns me. With the Grenades queued up I can then deal with any support Volks that come up, and with an Ambulance I never need to retreat early-game (just walk a few paces back after losing 2 men in a squad, since I can replenish while under fire as long as I am in uncontested territory).

Yeah, it took 3 infantry to take out 1 SPioneer, but if there are multiple, my other two Rifles should be able to force the other SPioneers to retreat

Sorry but this is plain wrong and not the way to deal with OKW.

Ambulance before captain can be okay, but it's still better to have it AFTER captain (or lt) and grenades are a big NO in the early game. 1. cost too much fuel, 2. cost too many munitions, 3. delays your tech towards capt/stuart or lt/m20. Apart from the fact that grenades are not even an option in the early game, how does this fix the double sturm problem that the OP has? Makes no sense at all...


Just use rifleman in green cover, they'll crush sturms if they have to engage you. and avoid kubel/sturm until you have a capt/stuart or m20. Rifleman in buildings is extremely strong against sturms aswell, but this won't always be an option.

Sorry but this is plain wrong and not the way to deal with OKW.

Ambulance before captain can be okay, but it's still better to have it AFTER captain (or lt) and grenades are a big NO in the early game. 1. cost too much fuel, 2. cost too many munitions, 3. delays your tech towards capt/stuart or lt/m20. Apart from the fact that grenades are not even an option in the early game, how does this fix the double sturm problem that the OP has? Makes no sense at all...


Just use rifleman in green cover, they'll crush sturms if they have to engage you. and avoid kubel/sturm until you have a capt/stuart or m20. Rifleman in buildings is extremely strong against sturms aswell, but this won't always be an option.

I hope you read about me saying that this was the tactic I used in TEAM matches, not 1v1. Since I personally answer most problems with infantry I rarely need fuel at all in the match. The ambulance ensures I stay at the front at all times, and grenades work very well in light of how popular bobbing is. Me emphasizing team tactics comes in that my allies cap ground behind me and they end up fielding the vehicles whilst I focus infantry (since they can survive to fight most tanks with Zookas and rifle grenades).

Me holding the front line while reking their spioneers does delay my opportunity for vehicles, but also delays theirs, and I find it working almost every game.

A stupid tactic isn't stupid if it works. Your points might be true in 1v1 where I actually need to cap everything too (and I never 1v1), but this tactic can rely on even help from dumbass teammates.

I hope you read about me saying that this was the tactic I used in TEAM matches, not 1v1. Since I personally answer most problems with infantry I rarely need fuel at all in the match. The ambulance ensures I stay at the front at all times, and grenades work very well in light of how popular bobbing is. Me emphasizing team tactics comes in that my allies cap ground behind me and they end up fielding the vehicles whilst I focus infantry (since they can survive to fight most tanks with Zookas and rifle grenades).

Me holding the front line while reking their spioneers does delay my opportunity for vehicles, but also delays theirs, and I find it working almost every game.

A stupid tactic isn't stupid if it works. Your points might be true in 1v1 where I actually need to cap everything too (and I never 1v1), but this tactic can rely on even help from dumbass teammates.

1v1 and team games are completely different and in team games double sturms are not even a big problem since you have teammates who can help you out...

Also team games are a lot more 'forgiving', mistakes or teching doesn't matter as much as in 1vs1's.

In team games I also wouldn't pick grenades early to counter double sturms.. because it doesn't counter sturms, atleast I don't see how they would.

it doesn't counter sturms, atleast I don't see how they would.

It does actually...its kinda risky because nades are such a huge investment that early, but you CAN throw a nade in the sturms charging path, which actually works very well with practice.....or force them to stay at range where rifles will win because they cant charge into the nade


I'd say early nade tech to rekt a sturm squad and the follow up volk squads has a good success rate vs sub top 200s

At top 200 and above i'd just get a cleverly placed fighting pit for nades and save the munitions and fuel if you want early nades.

I used a fighting pit behind a building in red ball express. Acted like a mortar all game.

Early early game, like opening and capping points, you can't counter them straight up in open territory. All you have is Rifles and RE. If there's green cover and/or buildings around, use them, and kite like mad. Every time they try to run up to you're face, hop out of cover and move somewhere else. The only issue you'll have is if they just run down your guys, and in that case you have to retreat unfortunately, or get wiped.

The trick is don't even give them the chance to get too close. Don't wait until they're right in your face to kite. Move far in advance and don't let them close the distance.

You'll just have to evaluate the situation to see whether it's even worth engaging or holding position, instead of taking other points, and coming back when you're more equiped.

Opening with double sturms in popular right now in team games. So if you see 3 or 4 OKW there's a couple of commander options I use as well.

One of my favorite options if I think they'll pump sturms is going Armour Company, and pump out 1 Rifle, and then 2 Engineers. Those 3 will wreck sturms and make a sad Axis. After that I have greater presence on the field and use that time for my Engineers to lay mines everywhere with my Rifle watching their flank.

Another slightly later option is I sometimes go recon, and get a Pathfinder. Recon gives Rifles extra vision in cover which allows you to see them coming and kite appropriately. The Pathfinder has good range and acts like a sniper if the sturm squad is damaged enough.

Two options. One if you want to give them a taste and get up close and personal as well, and the opposite option for maximum range.

Good luck