It's funny when people compare the P4 to 85's and EZ8's.
Its timing and cost (tech plus unit) makes it more comparable with lesser mediums.
Want a comparison for EZ8 and 85? It's called a Panther.
150 fuel panzer 4 increase it's penetration.
10 Dec 2015, 22:22 PM
#21
Posts: 589
10 Dec 2015, 22:29 PM
#22
Posts: 556
Idk why your comparing a p4 to a E8 or a 85, a regular Sherman and a regular 76 is more fair.Those doctrine specialize tanks are only comparable to a panther, if your wondering why each of those tiers the Germans are more expensive they generally perform better.
10 Dec 2015, 22:33 PM
#23
Posts: 589
Not to mention 85's and EZ8's are doctrinal...
10 Dec 2015, 22:34 PM
#24
Posts: 304
ez8 penetration is 200/165/155
10 Dec 2015, 22:37 PM
#25
Posts: 747 | Subs: 2
Not to mention 85's and EZ8's are doctrinal...
Not to mention P4 can actually rely on the best AT weapons in his rear... or the fact that his armor is excellent for bouncing shots on long range which results in a much better survivability.
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10 Dec 2015, 22:37 PM
#26
Posts: 230
Permanently BannedWith increasing the price the tank has to be compared to the T34/85 & Ez8, comparing to them its under performing.These stats are wrong. P4 penetration profile is 100/110/120
OKW P4:
Cost: 360 mp / 150 Fuel
Penetration: 100 / 120 / 130
Scatter: 6.4
AOE: 1.875-0.625
Reload: 5.63
Armour: 234 / 80
Health: 640
T34/85:
Cost: 380 mp / 130 Fuel
Penetration: 120 / 140 / 160
Scatter: 5.0
AOE: 1.875-0.625
Reload: 6.28
Armour: 160 / 80
Health: 800
Easy8:
Cost: 380 mp / 140 Fuel
Penetration: 155 / 165 / 175
Scatter: 5.4
AOE:1.5-0.5
Reload: 6.43
Armour: 215 / 95
Health: 720
We see, higher scatter means the gun will miss infantry more often. While the HP means it only sustains 4 shots vs 5 on the t34/85 & ez8. Low penetration means also that it has a hard time penetrating medium tanks (calliopes included). Compared with Armour of the Easy8 there is hardly a difference, especially when you keep in mind the that the Easy8 is considered as the best medium generalist tank in game.
Again it's just stating objective stats and comparing them. OKW P4 costs more, but has worse stats.
Ez8 has a near pen value of 200 not 175.
10 Dec 2015, 22:38 PM
#27
2 
Posts: 83
Haha hotfix isn't even live and players allready cry for changes 
I don't expect that price changes for flak HQ vehicles are going to stay for long relic just needed to somehow nerf OKW and didn't know exacly how to do it so they just increased the costs.
I agree that OKW P4 is somewhat cost inefficent but I don't think it's a big issue. And just giving it small penetration buff wouldn't really change anything honestly so why bother. It would just make allied tanks that are supposed to be more survival against it suck more (sherman dozer/e8, and KV-series).
I think people should play more before making analysis...
I don't expect that price changes for flak HQ vehicles are going to stay for long relic just needed to somehow nerf OKW and didn't know exacly how to do it so they just increased the costs. I agree that OKW P4 is somewhat cost inefficent but I don't think it's a big issue. And just giving it small penetration buff wouldn't really change anything honestly so why bother. It would just make allied tanks that are supposed to be more survival against it suck more (sherman dozer/e8, and KV-series).
I think people should play more before making analysis...
10 Dec 2015, 22:39 PM
#28
Posts: 304
p4 aoe is 2.5. we should find exact stats list. i have work from now on.
10 Dec 2015, 22:40 PM
#29
4 Posts: 444
Veterancy bonuses are not part of the initial fuel cost in any unit in that game. Veterancy is a reward for you for playing good and keeping your units alive. Otherwise you could easily price a vet 5 JP4 at 200 fuel and vet 3 SU85/Jackson at 180 fuel. Also Riflemen perform like elite infantry on vet 3, yet we don't price them over 300 MP.
Well, that makes sense hmm.
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10 Dec 2015, 22:40 PM
#30
1 Posts: 412
If you rush an E8 it will come out 10 fuel sooner than a PIV, assuming fuel income is equal. This means no nades, no weapon racks, no ambulance, Only one tier, cutting you off from half of your units. (if you choose captain it will come out the same time as PIV), meanwhile OKW will get all of this for free.
Until OKW has some fuel sinks the price is justified, imo.
Until OKW has some fuel sinks the price is justified, imo.
10 Dec 2015, 22:44 PM
#31
Posts: 747 | Subs: 2
Haha hotfix isn't even live and players allready cry for changes
I agree that OKW P4 is somewhat cost inefficent but I don't think it's a big issue. And just giving it small penetration buff wouldn't really change anything honestly so why bother. It would just make allied tanks that are supposed to be more survival against it suck more (sherman dozer/e8, and KV-series).
I think people should play more before making analysis...
It is in indeed not such a big issue since allies can actually counter that vehicle with a Jackson, SU-85 or Firefly.
A bigger problem is the JP4 (just one example). 2 JP4s negate any armor play and spit into the face of allied tank destroyers. Other problems are ofc the KT and JT or the dirtcheap Stuka (wiping any support weapon).
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10 Dec 2015, 22:53 PM
#32
Posts: 279
The huge armor values on the OKW p4 should not be underestimated, I think. That is what you're paying for.
10 Dec 2015, 22:59 PM
#33
Posts: 230
Permanently BannedHow are King tigers or Jagdtigers at all an issue anymore? The fact that they can't be countered by a single jackson or firefly?
10 Dec 2015, 23:12 PM
#34
Posts: 556
How are King tigers or Jagdtigers at all an issue anymore? The fact that they can't be countered by a single jackson or firefly?
I think it was the 12-18 min KT that may of hinted a need for adjustments.
10 Dec 2015, 23:55 PM
#35
8 Posts: 2470
the cost was increased because OKW was teching to fast. i don't think this is a good solution but it's not justification for a buff.
11 Dec 2015, 00:03 AM
#36
Posts: 1930
the OKW panzer isn't over priced, the easy 8 is just too cheap.
I distinctly remember a video where a wehr panzer4 was actually winning against a t34/85. No doubt the okw panzer can accomplish the same feat.
I distinctly remember a video where a wehr panzer4 was actually winning against a t34/85. No doubt the okw panzer can accomplish the same feat.
11 Dec 2015, 00:09 AM
#37
Posts: 621
I think they increased the price because originally it was designed with reduced income in mind and now with full income its too easily built
11 Dec 2015, 00:33 AM
#38
Posts: 149
Now OKW can tech faster and without fuel cost penality with last patch. If before the resources income buff pz4 fuel cost was 135 , what's the problem now? 150 fuel? It's only 11% more, when okw fuel income now is 100%.
11 Dec 2015, 00:34 AM
#39
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
You guys are missing the point on the p4/ panther price increases. They aren't increasing the costs because they feel the tanks were overperforming per cost, they increased their price because OKW was able to get too many tanks out way too quickly.
More likely than not, we will see the prices reverted for the mediums and replaced with actual tech to unlock them, as was hinted by the relic employee earlier (can't remember name).
They most likely went with increased fuel cost because it was the fastest way to push the changes out on a hotfix before relic goes on holiday.
More likely than not, we will see the prices reverted for the mediums and replaced with actual tech to unlock them, as was hinted by the relic employee earlier (can't remember name).
They most likely went with increased fuel cost because it was the fastest way to push the changes out on a hotfix before relic goes on holiday.
11 Dec 2015, 00:47 AM
#40
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
More likely than not, we will see the prices reverted for the mediums and replaced with actual tech to unlock them, as was hinted by the relic employee earlier (can't remember name).
Like the Bofors, AEC, Anvil and Hammer upgrades, I presume you mean?
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