Time for Statistics

Pz grens bundle grenade it's still garbage,grens still die faster than conscripts,2stock grens squad they still can't kill a low health retreating mg but allied infantry can kill a low health retreating mg with stock unit..that's unbalanced.Pz grens still are kinda meh besides AT

(WL ratio for Y day) x (number of games of Y day) = number of win games.

Total of win games / Total of games played = ratio
OH: 64.66%
USF: 72.39%
UKF: 68.20%
OKW: 62.49%

still just samples (which is still pretty useless)? timeframe?

if you want representative winratios, post ALL numbers:

games won, games played, ratio. for each faction, while mentioning the timeframe. and use every available piece of data (as in every days data). otherwise a simple look at the graph of the winrates is more representative than those numbers.

edit: i forgot, also mention gamemode...

I think it's also important to remember that since OKW is overperforming more people are playing that faction. On the other hand, fewer good palyers search Allies especially UKF (look at number games played). Therefore skewed results from unbalanced matchmaking which I believe could result in the extremes in data we are seeing.

What I'd like to see next is win rates for arranged teams playing allies since right now good players seem to be staying away from the weaker factions. Remember coh2chart only pulls data for randoms games.

coh2chart says: "Currently leaderboards of arranged teams are not tracked but it will be."

TL;DR: fewer top players bother with perceived weaker faction such as UKF; higher chance matched with noob allies (especially in 4v4!) => skewed win rates for Axis higher than actual state of balance would suggest.

Well here's my opinion of post Dec 3rd patch which is clearly shown on the first chart of every game mode (once you select the range):

Formula = wins/total games played %
Numbers = top 150 players' games post patch(Dec 3rd) to Dec 8th

1v1
OH: 69.13% 309/447
OKW: 70.08% 773/1103
SU: 57.48% 265/461
USF: 63.72% 353/554
UKF: 54.23% 186/343

2v2
OH: 63.17% 295/467
OKW: 75.31% 979/1300
SU: 48.64% 268/551
USF: 51.41% 346/673
UKF: 45.11% 217/481

3v3
OH: 68.89% 321/466
OKW: 78.56% 425/541
SU: 51.18% 130/254
USF: 51.57% 197/382
UKF: 60.33% 111/184

4v4
OH: 74.06% 574/775
OKW: 86.28% 975/1130
SU: 49.07% 371/756
USF: 51.80% 360/695
UKF: 46.00% 138/300

BTW, I'm too lazy to do a comparison from pre patch to now but if you just take a look... None of the game modes seem fair.
The highest percentage Allies ever reach is 63% but averages much lower on bigger modes. Where as Axis has a peak of 86% and averages around 70%.
I do not believe that by looking at these numbers you can say the game is balanced.

Even I switched over to OKW just so I can win some games... I got so tired of losing...

still just samples (which is still pretty useless)? timeframe?

if you want representative winratios, post ALL numbers:

games won, games played, ratio. for each faction, while mentioning the timeframe. and use every available piece of data (as in every days data). otherwise a simple look at the graph of the winrates is more representative than those numbers.

edit: i forgot, also mention gamemode...

Sigh.

Mode: 1v1
Timeframe: 29th October/2nd December
Faction: Games played/Games won
OH: 2810 1817,358 64.67%
USF: 2376 1720,711 72.42%
OKW: 2408 1504,86 62.49%
UKF: 1991 1358,511 68.23%

You should take some distance with those numbers, many variables can influence them.
Since the pool of Allied players is smaller, TOP150 Axis players are facing less skilled players while as Allied, you'll eventually face equal skilled players.

Now, the simple fact players pool are unbalance has a root cause in balance issues.
But just don't 'be too attract by them.

Well here's my opinion of post Dec 3rd patch which is clearly shown on the first chart of every game mode (once you select the range):

Formula = wins/total games played %
Numbers = top 150 players' games post patch(Dec 3rd) to Dec 8th

1v1
OH: 69.13% 309/447
OKW: 70.08% 773/1103
SU: 57.48% 265/461
USF: 63.72% 353/554
UKF: 54.23% 186/343

2v2
OH: 63.17% 295/467
OKW: 75.31% 979/1300
SU: 48.64% 268/551
USF: 51.41% 346/673
UKF: 45.11% 217/481

3v3
OH: 68.89% 321/466
OKW: 78.56% 425/541
SU: 51.18% 130/254
USF: 51.57% 197/382
UKF: 60.33% 111/184

4v4
OH: 74.06% 574/775
OKW: 86.28% 975/1130
SU: 49.07% 371/756
USF: 51.80% 360/695
UKF: 46.00% 138/300

BTW, I'm too lazy to do a comparison from pre patch to now but if you just take a look... None of the game modes seem fair.
The highest percentage Allies ever reach is 63% but averages much lower on bigger modes. Where as Axis has a peak of 86% and averages around 70%.
I do not believe that by looking at these numbers you can say the game is balanced.

Even I switched over to OKW just so I can win some games... I got so tired of losing...

this is valid statistical data :-)

and yeah, while sample size is still rather small and since it encompasses the first few days after patch when people probably didn't know how to play against the new OKW it's probably still a bit skewed towards axis, but the trend is still clearly visible and disconcerting... i think that bC_ announced a hotfix though? should take care of the most blatantly obvious imbalances (hopefully).

Yes, it's actually pretty easy to follow if you're not retarded, asshole.

Sentence 1:
"If 1000 games are played with axis and 500 are played with allies in the top 150 players, that means that axis played 500 games against players who are outside that skill bracket."

1000-500 = 500. pretty easy to understand. I kept it extremely simple and clarified in detail in another post.

Sentence 2:
"Which means that axis will have an inflated win rates because they are playing against weaker skilled players."

500 games are outside the skill bracket and against weaker players. Therefore the win rate is higher, due to more uneven match ups.

The reason I didn't explain it like that was he wanted to know WHY we're disregarding the stats, not for me just to tell him that they should be disregarded.





I'm not trying to say OKW is not OP, I'm just saying it's not statistically sound data. As "Myself" has asid, they either need to control for players (Only count games between players who are both in the top 150) or increase the sample size much large than the top 150. (top 500 atleast)

Whoa slow down buddy, don't take everything so personally. I just thought that there was a significantly easier way of saying what you were trying to say. But apparently I only think that cuz I'm a retarded asshole. Which, while we're on the subject, I'll go ahead and thank you for throwing in completely unprovoked and unnecessary ad hominem. (Just goes to show your true character though.)

Back on topic, it's pretty obvious that OKW is over performing by a wide margin. Hopefully Relic will address it soon, I'd hate for any future tournaments/events to be tarnished by a patch with such a poor state of balance. Here's to hoping they patch again soon instead of waiting a month or two to see what shakes out. No one wants to spend the next month or two dealing with unstoppable schreck volk blobs or 5 min luchs or kubels on your cutoff in the first 40 seconds of the game.

Invissed a post. There's salty, then there's downright rude. Don't be rude, be happy.

Sigh.

Mode: 1v1
Timeframe: 29th October/2nd December
Faction: Games played/Games won
OH: 2810 1817,358 64.67%
USF: 2376 1720,711 72.42%
OKW: 2408 1504,86 62.49%
UKF: 1991 1358,511 68.23%

did the numbers myself as well
Gamemode: 1v1
Timeframe (including): 29.10.15-2.12.15

Faction:	Games won	Games played	Ratio

OST:		1890		2920		64.72603%
OKW:		1526		2453		62.20954%
USF:		1721		2376		72.43266%
UKF:		1357		1989		68.22524%
SOV:		1073		1533		69.99348%

(there could be minor mistakes in there, but i'm fairly certain that at least the math part is entirely correct)

clearly the numbers for the axis factions are not as low as i said i remembered them, but, to be fair, i was talking about a different timeframe (since brit release, so basically starting 19.09.15 instead). especially if you look at that timeframe (19.09.15 until, lets say 29.10.15, so your start date) the numbers should come down to what i remembered them as.

but even with your timeframe, all allied factions have significantly higher win percentages than the axis factions. and i guarantee you, if you go further back, the winrates for axis will go down further.

on a side note, as others have already explained, these statistics are at least flawed, if not downright false, at least at times (see oct 31st for sov/ost). but since only relic has the "real", the useful data, we'll have to make due with what we have.

snip

I took the 29/10 date as it seems it was the latest update to the game (IIRC it was the flame patch). Taking previous dates is just taking into account a different patch.

I'll argue that small tweaks to OKW, adjusting ISG/Howie and nerfing Rifle company would had done way better than this whole OKW revamp.

I took the 29/10 date as it seems it was the latest update to the game (IIRC it was the flame patch). Taking previous dates is just taking into account a different patch.

I'll argue that small tweaks to OKW, adjusting ISG/Howie and nerfing Rifle company would had done way better than this whole OKW revamp.

even with retardedly stupid ISGs, OKW had lowest winrate.. and from watching 1v1 streamers, the games against OKW were laughable most of the time. i doubt that small adjustments would have helped... and even calling it "revamp" is a bit much.... all they really did was move a few units around in tiers, remove the ressource penalties and in turn remove some of the vet4/5 bonuses (and "smaller" changes to units... especially the kübel, which i think is one of the factors that is making OKW so strong right now).

taking into account older patches was EXACTLY what i wanted to do, since OKW has been "revamped" you can almost treat them like a "new" faction like the brits... so you'd expect them to behave as such in winrate.

did the numbers myself as well
Gamemode: 1v1
Timeframe (including): 29.10.15-2.12.15

Code

Faction:	Games won	Games played	Ratio

OST:		1890		2920		64.72603%
OKW:		1526		2453		62.20954%
USF:		1721		2376		72.43266%
UKF:		1357		1989		68.22524%
SOV:		1073		1533		69.99348%

(there could be minor mistakes in there, but i'm fairly certain that at least the math part is entirely correct)

clearly the numbers for the axis factions are not as low as i said i remembered them, but, to be fair, i was talking about a different timeframe (since brit release, so basically starting 19.09.15 instead). especially if you look at that timeframe (19.09.15 until, lets say 29.10.15, so your start date) the numbers should come down to what i remembered them as.

but even with your timeframe, all allied factions have significantly higher win percentages than the axis factions. and i guarantee you, if you go further back, the winrates for axis will go down further.

on a side note, as others have already explained, these statistics are at least flawed, if not downright false, at least at times (see oct 31st for sov/ost). but since only relic has the "real", the useful data, we'll have to make due with what we have.

The data you showed has a 63.6% win rate for axis versus a 70.4% win rate for allies. During that time, allies played 525 (9%) more games than axis. Normalizing for number of games played brought the difference down from 6.8% to 3.9%. I didn't get the data for the last week but it looks like about a 30%+ advantage for axis since the patch.

Is it upsetting to some people to have their ignorant little bubbles popped?
@ Dullahan
Stop pretending like you can just poop on everyone's opinions because you think you are some authority on the game? News flash bud, you're not and neither am I.

So instead of spending your time here, why not just get good at the game, because clearly you aren't.

#Shotsfired #BangBang #MingLee

I think we should wait 1 week. Let the meta setlle down and then start making asuptions in 1vs1.

Keep in mind that lot USA player ranks were inflated and belong to top 300 not 150 and thier rank was mainly based on flame rifle cheese with vet 3 in 10 minutes.

So please wait one week everyone except top 20 need to adapt a bit and then we see.


EDIT: I was also looking at game played.Most top 150 played only OKW or mostly OKW and not many players played allies so OKW got matched much more times agains lover than top 150 players than other factions because of imbalance in Axis/allies games played

http://coh2chart.com

HOW DARE YOU!

HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST ANYTHING LOGICAL ON THIS FORUM!

I love how you people identify yourselves by avatars as well for those who are too lazy to read your posts and get the obvious subtext.

even with retardedly stupid ISGs, OKW had lowest winrate.. and from watching 1v1 streamers, the games against OKW were laughable most of the time. i doubt that small adjustments would have helped... and even calling it "revamp" is a bit much.... all they really did was move a few units around in tiers, remove the ressource penalties and in turn remove some of the vet4/5 bonuses (and "smaller" changes to units... especially the kübel, which i think is one of the factors that is making OKW so strong right now).

taking into account older patches was EXACTLY what i wanted to do, since OKW has been "revamped" you can almost treat them like a "new" faction like the brits... so you'd expect them to behave as such in winrate.

If you don't call it a revamp i'm not sure what has to be done. The kubel is not the main factor OKW is overperforming. Popcap, new performance and cost efficiency of Volks an SP early on into a fast tech with light vehicle play, buildings with utility and tanks is what's making OKW the ol OPKW.

It's just like the OKW post release. It's not neccesarily the best at high level of play, but it's has some mechanics that are idiot proof. Reminds me when i (by miracle) managed to get top3 2v2 AT by going double OKW playing KT + Pak43. At some point feels like playing Protoss

You know what things i would had like before this patch:
-Veterancy adjustment on some units so it was easier to achieve vet4/5
-Damn squad formation rework on Falls
-Fix the rak crew shooting while having vehicle priority
-No autofacing on ISG, removed suppression but added on barrage, toggle hollow munition.
-Current SP. Obers unlocked at HQ after 2 trucks. Volks receiving conscripts treatment: higher damage, increase receive accuracy. Forced to be used defensively and in cover.
-Mechanized truck: resource convertion. Increase either resource at the expense of mp instead of transfer of muni or fuel.