To Abandon or not to Abandon

Voted to remove it, but if it stays I'd rather tie it to effort than RNG, like vehicles are only abandoned when killed off by handheld AT. A finishing AT gun shot or tank destroyer shot shouldn't leave a vehicle abandoned in my opinion.

Leave it.

Abandon punishes people using their vehicles without proper support.

The one thing I'd like to see though is US be able to recrew vehicles without sacrificing a squad to the blood god to do it.



Anytime you're doing a unit trade, it's a gamble. As you say, he already knows he's going to lose his tank by doing it. So if he gets greedy and tries to take you out that's a risk/reward scenario he's decided to take. (He should be aware of the chance for it to be abandoned when doing this maneuver.)

In a balanced army, he'd have other options than the Panther to take it out.

So you want to tell me that player that not calculate his risk - extend is2 into pak wall wont get punished because of 5% chance that is2 get abanoned ? That pak wall i mean beofre he started to go for him with panther. Hovewer panther had only 25 % of life because of previous fight but he pursue that tank - he takes the risk of losing his own tank and he know what he is doing and eve calculating with 5% chance to get abanoned but it would not change his mind because if he would be so conservative he would never knock out is2 that is wiping his squads. So his pursue , take zis shot , attack is2 , abandon it , zis will fire on panhter trying to get away , panther die , is 2 get recrewed.

You cant to tell me that it is fine that player that recleslly rushed is2 into pak wall and reversed should not be punished while player that took calculated risk (trading panther vs is2) will get punished?

I dont see anything fair here.

And punishement that happen ony 5 % of times is not good punishement , that like saing mg punish blob. Its rounds do 19 time nothing and blob will roflstomp mg and 1 time of all 20 times will mg wipe whole blob.
Do you think it wil be good for gameplay ?

Or in other worlds incostenstent damage / game changing bullpuding is not good for gameplay because of pure luck (10 times it does not work and then in 11th game you will loose thx this incontested stupid game mechanism.)

So you want to tell me that player that not calculate his risk - extend is2 into pak wall wont get punished because of 5% chance that is2 get abanoned ? That pak wall i mean beofre he started to go for him with panther. Hovewer panther had only 25 % of life because of previous fight but he pursue that tank - he takes the risk of losing his own tank and he know what he is doing and eve calculating with 5% chance to get abanoned but it would not change his mind because if he would be so conservative he would never knock out is2 that is wiping his squads. So his pursue , take zis shot , attack is2 , abandon it , zis will fire on panhter trying to get away , panther die , is 2 get recrewed.

You cant to tell me that it is fine that player that recleslly rushed is2 into pak wall and reversed should not be punished while player that took calculated risk (trading panther vs is2) will get punished?

What's the difference between him reversing out of range and the last shot abandoning rather than simply missing? Or a front armour deflection? Either way tank gets away and is far more likely to happen in such a scenario. Except with abandonment he is far less likely to get away due to only having a sliver of health left when he recrews it. You're looking at abandon like "THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A KILL", but functionally it's not any different than a miss or deflection. (Atleast in this scenario.)

The IS-2 is still punished for overextending. It's removed from combat until it can be repaired, and still quite vulnerable to a proper counterplay. (Recon planes to determine the position of his stuff, for example, instead of charging your panther at him blindly and dying to an AT gun. Or smoke to cover your retreat etc.)

You could just as easily theorycraft a scenario where the panther drives up, shoots IS2 and then deflects the last Zis shot and gets away and then we could have a thread "To Deflect or not to Deflect". Everything is a calculated risk, and if you're taking a risk that will put you in a severely disadvantaged position if it fails you have no right to bitch when it goes south on you. Doesn't matter if it's abandon or deflection or missing the shot or terrain blocking the shot etc.

Nerf the rng, remove it.

What's the difference between him reversing out of range and the last shot abandoning rather than simply missing? Or a front armour deflection? Either way tank gets away and is far more likely to happen in such a scenario. Except with abandonment he is far less likely to get away due to only having a sliver of health left when he recrews it. You're looking at abandon like "THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A KILL", but functionally it's not any different than a miss or deflection. (Atleast in this scenario.)

The IS-2 is still punished for overextending. It's removed from combat until it can be repaired, and still quite vulnerable to a proper counterplay. (Recon planes to determine the position of his stuff, for example, instead of charging your panther at him blindly and dying to an AT gun. Or smoke to cover your retreat etc.)

You could just as easily theorycraft a scenario where the panther drives up, shoots IS2 and then deflects the last Zis shot and gets away and then we could have a thread "To Deflect or not to Deflect". Everything is a calculated risk, and if you're taking a risk that will put you in a severely disadvantaged position if it fails you have no right to bitch when it goes south on you. Doesn't matter if it's abandon or deflection or missing the shot or terrain blocking the shot etc.

Deflection is something else ,please dont bring it here. Yes this screnario was rather weird but in 90 % of abanonement player that is punished does not played any worse than the second guy.

Also i think i wont change your mind , youre strong forum warrion and no one will never defeat you because you always counterargument with something completely irrelevent (but it look good to masses) and out of game reality.





I just want to write abanonement from my strategist angle of seeing , you have different opinion about abanonement and that its.

i just think it is not good game mechanism for E-sports in general because of unfrequencity and game impact (deflect happen often and you count on them - chance that zis will pen panther is almost the same as that panther will kill is2 , hovewer abanonement chance is so low you cannot even count it or you will never make a move).

If abanoned tank need full squad to recrew (like USA) and will have destroyed main gun and threads until fully repaired then abanonementr can be good , but it also need to happen at least in 25 % of times to be consistent.


Inconsisten abilites need to mve away from E-sports - that also why planecrashes were nerfed and why infantry are spaced more - because of more consistent damage and less random squadwipes.

i just think it is not good game mechanism for E-sports in general because of unfrequencity and game impact (deflect happen often and you count on them - chance that zis will pen panther is almost the same as that panther will kill is2 , hovewer abanonement chance is so low you cannot even count it or you will never make a move).

But think of it like this. You're gambling already that the panther will not miss the IS2. You're gambling that it will pen the IS2. That's already two variables that have a healthy chance of ruining your day. In comparison, abandonment is actually pretty rare.

Even if abandon didn't exist, it'd still be a risky maneuver with no safety net. So why do it without one? There are plenty of tools to make abandonment a non-issue and allow you to safely destroy, or even CAPTURE the abandoned vehicle.


I just think that every time something gets abandoned and it becomes game changing, it was because someone made a mistake. I really enjoy the mechanic, both when I get the opportunity to steal a vehicle or when my opponent manages to steal one of mine. (because I know I deserved it)


Having it be a rare thing makes it a surprise. Suddenly everyone is scrambling to capture/destroy this vehicle! It's fun to see someone run off with it. Everyone gets a little disappointed when it just gets destroyed rather than stolen.

Gonna put absolutes here.

Stuka dive bomb vs Katyusha

Katyusha doesn't have any chance to deflect nor survive a Stuka dive bomb. It survives.

Gonna put absolutes here.

Stuka dive bomb vs Katyusha

Katyusha doesn't have any chance to deflect nor survive a Stuka dive bomb. It survives.

True story - this happened to me in a tournament game. And in the same game I traded my flanked elefant for an ISU152. Elefant died, ISU152 abandoned. Game lost.

Guess I got outplayed and need to adapt.

The mechanic is and always has been garbage and completely detrimental to competitive play. It adds NOTHING of value because no player has any control over the vehicle being abandoned or outright destroyed. Just a roll of the dice and the RNG God cackling.

Anyone who is arguing that you need to "make a calculated risk" on your tank being abandoned is completely ignorant of competitive play and high level COH 2 play. How can you calculate something that you have zero control over. I'd love a reasonable explanation.

Sure the mechanic might be fun sometimes or every 1/100,000 games provided for an interesting situation but the VAST majority (like 99%+) of the time it's just bullshit.

Remove from automatch, keep in custom games.

/Thread

But think of it like this. You're gambling already that the panther will not miss the IS2. You're gambling that it will pen the IS2. That's already two variables that have a healthy chance of ruining your day. In comparison, abandonment is actually pretty rare.

Even if abandon didn't exist, it'd still be a risky maneuver with no safety net. So why do it without one? There are plenty of tools to make abandonment a non-issue and allow you to safely destroy, or even CAPTURE the abandoned vehicle.


I just think that every time something gets abandoned and it becomes game changing, it was because someone made a mistake. I really enjoy the mechanic, both when I get the opportunity to steal a vehicle or when my opponent manages to steal one of mine. (because I know I deserved it)


Having it be a rare thing makes it a surprise. Suddenly everyone is scrambling to capture/destroy this vehicle! It's fun to see someone run off with it. Everyone gets a little disappointed when it just gets destroyed rather than stolen.

You have a lot of influence over the Panther hitting/missing the IS2. You have a lot of influence over the penetration chance of your Panther against the IS2. These are variables that a good player can optimize try and sway RNG in their favor.

It's like poker. You're not going to win every hand triple betting into the flop with suited AK but you have a damn good chance against most hands. And even post flop you get to calculate/estimate your odds of winning based on the information at hand. Sure even the "right" decision mathematically can get you burned, but there is a reason that top poker players consistently place in the money in large tournaments. This kind of RNG is what makes a game good/compelling and is what could make CoH 2 the best RTS on the market.

But how many poker players do you think would keep playing if there was just an arbitrary 5% chance to lose a winning hand for no reason other than "LOL SRY BOIS RNG Kappa Kappa MVGame FailFish"

There is already way too much detrimental RNG still in the game and way too many retarded units/abilities (goliath, demo charge, howitzers, skill strafes). We don't need more just because "HEY GUYS ITS SO COOL AND TELLS A STORY"

Remove it outright. It's exactly the same as cold-tech: flavorful bull-pudding. No matter how you look at it you're still eating pudding.

i want abandonment to be predictable. i don't care if all tanks get abandoned or no tanks get abandoned or only tanks with certain crits or some such but i don't want it to be random. right now tanks mostly don't get abandoned and of those that do it doesn't matter most of the time but that tiny, tiny percent of the time where a tank does get abandoned and it matters tends to ruin the games it happens in.

Rather than outright remove it why not make it more predictable than what it currently is.

Right now it's just a random thing that happens to you and can screw you right over. It would be nice to be able to be able to TRAP a vehicle into a de-crewed scenario but I don't know how I'd bring it about. Something that would make it a play/counterplay mechanic.

Maybe if the main gun is wrecked and the engine is disabled the crew will bail every time for example. I'm not saying its the final solution but it would let you steal the vehicle with a well timed, low damage AT nade/Faust/etc if the main gun was already disabled. If it survives the nade you have a chance to steal it.

I am of the opinion that disabling it in automatch but enabling it as an option in custom games.
I like how Relic has changed things like truesight, improved the UI, grid keys, etc. The learning curve for coh2's mechanics are easier thanks to the UI and how capping territory works.

I like the abandon mechanic. I think it adds a certain degree of realism to coh2, just like cold tech did. However, the rng negatively affects balance to such a degree that it can negatively effect gameplay to an astounding degree.

You have a lot of influence over the Panther hitting/missing the IS2. You have a lot of influence over the penetration chance of your Panther against the IS2. These are variables that a good player can optimize try and sway RNG in their favor.

It's like poker. You're not going to win every hand triple betting into the flop with suited AK but you have a damn good chance against most hands. And even post flop you get to calculate/estimate your odds of winning based on the information at hand. Sure even the "right" decision mathematically can get you burned, but there is a reason that top poker players consistently place in the money in large tournaments. This kind of RNG is what makes a game good/compelling and is what could make CoH 2 the best RTS on the market.

But how many poker players do you think would keep playing if there was just an arbitrary 5% chance to lose a winning hand for no reason other than "LOL SRY BOIS RNG Kappa Kappa MVGame FailFish"

There is already way too much detrimental RNG still in the game and way too many retarded units/abilities (goliath, demo charge, howitzers, skill strafes). We don't need more just because "HEY GUYS ITS SO COOL AND TELLS A STORY"

I like the poker comparison, as its inherently an RNG game because it involves a deck of cards.

Ciez has the best post so far

Remove or modify it to have a high chance of happening in the base sector and 0.01% chance of anywhere else.

This mechanic adds a lot of fun, so keep it or modify.
Keep it in automatches, but remove in tournament games.

True story - this happened to me in a tournament game. And in the same game I traded my flanked elefant for an ISU152. Elefant died, ISU152 abandoned. Game lost.

Guess I got outplayed and need to adapt.

The mechanic is and always has been garbage and completely detrimental to competitive play. It adds NOTHING of value because no player has any control over the vehicle being abandoned or outright destroyed. Just a roll of the dice and the RNG God cackling.

Anyone who is arguing that you need to "make a calculated risk" on your tank being abandoned is completely ignorant of competitive play and high level COH 2 play. How can you calculate something that you have zero control over. I'd love a reasonable explanation.

Sure the mechanic might be fun sometimes or every 1/100,000 games provided for an interesting situation but the VAST majority (like 99%+) of the time it's just bullshit.

Remove from automatch, keep in custom games.

/Thread

+42

i believe that it adds some flavour to the game, leave it.

Even if this mechanic modified, there are new problems.
If flame thrower make tank abandoned, US have no infantry or vehicle flame thrower(non-doctrinal). solving this will bring another problems.

GAME LOSING RNG = FLAVOR/FUN

game is now

E S P O R T S
S
P
O
R
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ready