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Give Brits AT Snare With Nade Tech

4 Dec 2015, 06:05 AM
#21
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


also, @Firesparks, the "nerf" to the 6pdr was not a direct nerf to the 6pdr (its stats remained untouched), it was more a nerf to the amount of fieldable units of the brits. the 6pdr still performs EXACTLY the same way it did before, the MP cost increase only delayed the appearance of the 6pdr (and all subsequent units) by roughly 10-15 seconds. and if you think 10-15 seconds is a big deal, pls test the earliest possible times for both cromwell and (ost) p4 in a custom game and try to justify that.


40 mp is significant enough. trying to dismiss the importance of 40 mp is idiotic considering how much people were crying about the 6 pounder being cheaper to begin with.


as for tech difference:

This is why Brits have fuel sinks.

-Weapon racks 15F
-Grenades 25F
-Squad sizes 25 F
-Bofors/AEC 15 F
-Hammer/Anvil 50 F


Ostheer spends the most fuel teching, but they have zero fuel sinks. Likewise OKW gets 1 less fuel per strat point and 2 per fuel point, but don't have fuel sinks either.


A Brit rushing a centaur or whatever only needs to spend 780 manpower 245 fuel, but they're sacrificing weapon upgrades, grenades, larger squad sizes (which translates into 25% less damage on their infantry sections and sappers.) and Bofors Emplacement/AEC both of which have their uses.

Meanwhile Ostheer spend 780 manpower and 260 fuel for an Ostwind and aren't missing anything from their army like grenades or weapon upgrades.


I think over time you'll see people learn to appreciate the importance of stuff like bofors/AEC and how effective they can be. In general any RTS metagame heavily favours fast teching for high end units until the metagame developments. Saw the same shit in Dawn of War 2 for years, only in the last 2-3 has the metagame evolved beyond that.

I don't think anything about British teching should be touched with a 10ft pole. This is the sort of problem that is solved by players getting better at steamrolling british players who don't buy their upgrades in favour of trying to rush an early centaur/cromwell.

4 Dec 2015, 12:46 PM
#22
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164



40 mp is significant enough. trying to dismiss the importance of 40 mp is idiotic considering how much people were crying about the 6 pounder being cheaper to begin with.



I never complained about the 6pdr being too cheap. Its a unit that you usuall only ever build 1-2 of with no real follow up costs. Having to spend +-80MP in an entire game with no other factors changed is negligible. Unlike having to spend fuel or having to wait for a tech to finish, the delay is minimal.

According to brit player consensus: bofors/aec suck, nobodys going to get them. Piats suck as well. Hammer/anvil is after centaur/cromwell, so that leaves us with 50 fuel max as sidetechs (which is reasonable i guess). With tech costs that amounts to roughly 200 fuel before you can start building the first tank. For ost 200 fuel is what you need for the t3 building and the p4 alone, let alone teching costs and previous tiers. The teching itself and base building build time is also way higher. The mere chance of a tank appearing when you're still several minutes away from your earliest possible tank forces you to go t2 as ost, which in turn delays tanks. And so on and so forth...
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