Bug/Oversight: Aura units buff friendly players' units

There are multiple units (e.g. officers, tanks) that give buffs to nearby units through auras. Some of those auras are passive (e.g. Panzer IV command tank aura), whereas other auras have a pay-per-use munition cost (e.g. airlanding officer's heroic charge ability).

This post is not about discussing whether aura units belong to CoH2 (there are other threads about this issue in COH2.org).

Instead, this thread is about pointing the following:
- Aura units that buff friendly players' units is broken (i.e. not just the units of the owner). The aura buffs stack, and with the right combination of commanders in a teamgame, one side can simply overwhelm the other with minimal effort (e.g. combine a Panzer IV command tank with a Panther V command tank and it's gg for the other team)
- Certain aura unit's effects and abilities that do not correspond to the tooltip (i.e., potential bugs that make the stacking effect even worse).
- The (negative) effects of aura stacking to balance only become worse the larger the teamgame becomes.

The rest of the post consists of two sections:
1. The first section discusses potentially bugged abilities on aura units (with the intend to -fix them)
2. The second section lists all units and abilities that also buff friendly players' units (with the intent to minimize the number of such units)

1) UNITS WITH (POTENTIALLY) BUGGED ABILITIES

OKW Sturm Offizier:

According to the tooltip, the officer's aura is meant to apply both a strong buff (additional accuracy) and a strong debuff (forced retreat when the officer dies).

- The buff applies to all allied units (friendly players' units as well). However, the aura does not apply the force-retreat penalty to other player's units (it only applies it to the owner of the unit)

- According to Cruzz, the effect of the "Target Them" ability of the officer, does not really correspond to what the tooltip says. Here is the excerpt from another thread:

OKW Officer "Target Them" ability says it makes opponent units fight harder, but that's a lie. It just increases their received accuracy by 50% for 20 seconds which is not particularly useful with high accuracy okw units except when enemy is in yellow/green cover in which case it is a straight up 50% boost to DPS against that squad.

OST Panzer IV Command Tank:

This unit buffs all nearby friendly units with a flat -20% incoming damage buff.

- One issue with the aura is that the Panzer IV Command tank also benefits from the aura itself (this is the only passive aura unit that benefits from its own aura).


OKW Panther PzKpfw V Command Tank:

- The radius of passive aura of the Panther command tank is simply massive, and dwarfs the radius of any other aura in the game.

I have no idea where I can dig up the exact stats, but it feels that most other auras have a radius of at most 30, whereas the radius of the panther command aura has a range that exceeds 60.


UKF Airlanding Officer

- It feels that the ability modifiers/cost for the officer's heroic charge are simply too good for its cost.

2) UNITS THAT APPLY AURA TO FRIENDLY UNITS

With the exception of the UKF command vehicle (thankfully!), every single other aura unit in the game applies the buffs to all friendly units in the game.

Here is a list of all aura units I know that are affected by this (let me know if I left anything out):

OKW:
- Sturm Offizier
- Panther V command tank

OST:
- Panzer IV
- Artillery Field Officer (Concentrated Fire ability)

UKF:
- Airlanding officer (Heroic Charge ability)

I have not tried the following units/abilities, yet:
- USF Captain's On Me ability (doesn't break suppression, but might buff accuracy)
- Soviet Forward Headquarters passive buff
- Any of the numerous UKF commander abilities that buff units in friendly sectors

Going to pass this to the Balance Team. Thanks

They should work on friendlies imo.

It encourages team play.

They should work on friendlies imo.

It encourages team play.

some i felt it is too powerful in team games

like FHQ on some maps if it is on a good building it is almost impossible for german to push them off until some hard counters like walking stuka or pwfers as germans can't set buildings on fire as easily as SU. (i never see double flame nade from volks set a apartment building on fire, but i did see 2 Molotov set apartment buildings on fire all the time. )

i also find SU mark target ability kind OP in team games. it is suppose to help SU to fight german armors as Main all around SU armor is T34-76 which is weak against german armors and help SU85 and Zis to force off german armor more easily.

however, in teammate once the mark target applied. all allied faction tanks and AT guns can hit the german tank so hard. like M10, Jackson and firefly 1 shot can took out so much health on a panther. and those tanks are usually company in 2-3 of them. i got quite alot instant death because as my panther peak out got mark target try to back off with full hp, 2 tanks and 2 AT gun fire together for 1 round at my panther it is dead. I think it should only apply to the faction who used skill. so is the marked target command panther have.

I think it's fine, adds some good climate and team play in games

They should work on friendlies imo.

It encourages team play.

I think it's fine, adds some good climate and team play in games

I don't think we need stacking auras to promote teamplay. The game is already rife with interesting inter-faction synergies. E.g. pooling the USF ambulance to provide healing to a soviet teammate, using OKW's mechanized HQ to heal your Tiger, using mortar smoke barrage to cover an ally's Volksgrenadiers as they harass a fuel point. There are many interesting synergies in the game; I don't think we need an (imo broken) mechanic to encourage players to create mega-blobs.

In fact, I would argue that if we got rid of stacking auras, this would promote even more (and better) teamplay. Currently if player A gets a Panzer IV command tank (defensive aura) and player B gets a Panther V command tank (offensive aura), there is no thought-play involved in how to execute an attack/defence.

Now, let's remove stacking auras from the equation. We can see that player A has specialized his units for survivability (therefore he should be the one to lead an attack). At the same time, player B has specialized his units for offensive capabilities. Therefore, player A acts as the meatshield, while player B gets busy taking down the opposition.

i also find SU mark target ability kind OP in team games. it is suppose to help SU to fight german armors as Main all around SU armor is T34-76 which is weak against german armors and help SU85 and Zis to force off german armor more easily.

I also intended to include Mark Target in the list for that big-game effect. However, I completely forgot about it along the way.

- - -

Back on topic (apologies, since this touches more on balance than bugs). If stacking auras is the intended design, perhaps aura units should be rebalanced so that they have the following characteristics:

1. The enemy team should have a chance to counter the auras

This means that the buffing unit should have at least one of the following characteristics:
- Highly vulnerable (either squishy, like most infantry, or slow, like the UKF command vehicle)
- Small area of effect (e.g. sturmoffizier's radius is OK), which should force buffing units to the frontline, and make them more vulnerable.
- Timed, with a reasonably long cooldown (e.g. airlanding officer's heroic charge)

For instance, an observant player can counter a short-radius timed-ability with a soft retreat.

2. The combat capabilities of the aura unit should be way inferior to combat-oriented units that cost the same

This presents a player with a strategic choice; either build a combat unit to continue the push, or stall for a bit to get an aura unit so that they can apply even more pressure later. This should make aura units feel more like an investment (e.g. push now, or "tech-up" and risk losing territory in the short-term), rather than a no-brainer.

Imo, the units that break this balance the most are Panzer IV (cheaper than a panzer IV, applies defensive aura to itself, and also has OK anti-infantry capabilities) and Panther V (Massive radius, panther-survivability for inferior vet and barely slightly-increased cost). Currently, I cannot think of anything that can focus fire on a Panzer IV/Panther V at the rear of an enemy mega-blob.

A shining example of a unit that follows those two rules is the UKF command vehicle. Combat-capability-wise, the vehicle becomes a write-off. To top this off, the unit is also way too slow to defend against a coordinated attack. (I'll also remind you that the command vehicle's aura doesn't affect friendly units; imo that should be the norm, not the sole exception).

They should work on friendlies imo.

It encourages team play.

+ 1

...Sturm Offizier: buff applies to all allied units (friendly players' units as well). However, the aura does not apply the force-retreat penalty to other player's units (it only applies it to the owner of the unit)

OST Panzer IV Command Tank:
This unit buffs all nearby friendly units with a flat -20% incoming damage buff.
- One issue with the aura is that the Panzer IV Command tank also benefits from the aura itself (this is the only passive aura unit that benefits from its own aura).

OKW Panther PzKpfw V Command Tank:
- The radius of passive aura of the Panther command tank is simply massive, and dwarfs the radius of any other aura in the game.

UKF Airlanding Officer
- It feels that the ability modifiers/cost for the officer's heroic charge are simply too good for its cost...

OKW Sturm Offizier: useless unit, if it would retreat on other players units would be still useless just more.

Panzer IV Command Tank:
Considered 'balanced' since release(meh unit, expensive, no gun, no pen, no mg, belongs to meh commanders), after almost 2 years it was changed('ease of use', not buffed( i consider it a nerf because when it affected zones depends on map it affected a larger area than the currend aura radius now)) thus people tested it if its finally has some use. Some 'beginners' decided to blame losing their games on this unit.

Panther PzKpfw V Command Tank:
How about look at what stats the aura actually gives(it gives little). Its expensive and situational, never gets to vet3 before game ends. Also belongs to never pick this commander if you want to win.

UKF command vehicle: 'cost only ammo' and doesn't applies to teammates because it would be very op.

UKF commander abilities: imo most of them is meh.

OST Artillery Field Officer: another meh never used unit.

I have average 200h per week pvp in coh2 and in the last 3 months never seen people use Panzer IV Command Tank,Panther PzKpfw V Command Tank, Artillery Field Officer, Sturm Offizier because they are that bad(except some noob 1 time).

Command tank finally made an appearance after its recent changes. I have a feeling if it's reverted/restricted. It will go bye bye again

Command panther- as stated above, it never reaches vet 3 and if it does. It's GG by then. I think I also heard that you can't even use elite troops on it after a while. (Ima check when I get home)

Strum officer-if you made the buff retreat all units including the teammates. I think it will lead to frustrating play.

SU foward point- only used to buff you and your teammates. You'll never see that commander again if you changed it.

OST field officer- never seen. Cost muni, justifies the buff to teammates imo.

If anything I think there should be more units like that. I like the idea of command units, (every army used them) SU can use some field officers with aura buffs. You know, the guy with the flag...

Commissar when relic
Make him hang around the base sector and he executes your teammates units if they retreat lel

Going to pass this to the Balance Team. Thanks

Dont fix what's NOT broken. imao.

Dont fix what's NOT broken. imao.

broken as in "not working as intended" or broken as in "siukig thinks it's currently fine"?

To the 1v1 crowd: I am not in favour of nerfing the stats of any of the units I mentioned.

However, to me, it seems that each of these units has been balanced according to the strengths and weaknesses of the doctrine that they reside. When you remove the player boundaries and allow aura units to buff units of my allies, it becomes a mess. I will motivate this with an example.

Consider the Panzer IV command tank.
The tank confers a 20% damage reduction bonus to both infantry and tanks.

This is massive. Compare this to the recently-introduced vet3 Riflemen which reduces received accuracy by 25%. Received accuracy only affects resilience to small-arms fire and, still, the buff turned riflemen from a late-game liability to terminators. Panzer IV's command aura grants resilience to all sources (your grenadiers will never be 1-shot by a mortar shell/grenade).

This is perfectly fine, though, when we examine the unit in the vacuum of 1vs1 balance. None of the doctrines that include a meaty shock unit that can lead the assault (e.g. a Tiger for instance).

However, things start to become VERY broken when the game allows you to combine this buff with your teammates' units. Some of my own favourite combos include the following:

Panzer IV with any of the following:
- King Tiger (375 armor, and 1600 effective HP), Tiger
- Obersoldaten (reduces their only vulnerability; that to explosives)

UKF airlanding officer with Riflemen (face it; Tommies are plain awful at attacking anything).

Now, to those people that think stacking auras are OK. Do they think that ANY of those combos I mentioned should still be allowed in the game?

OKW Sturm Offizier: useless unit, if it would retreat on other players units would be still useless just more.

Panzer IV Command Tank:
Considered 'balanced' since release(meh unit, expensive, no gun, no pen, no mg, belongs to meh commanders), after almost 2 years it was changed('ease of use', not buffed( i consider it a nerf because when it affected zones depends on map it affected a larger area than the currend aura radius now)) thus people tested it if its finally has some use. Some 'beginners' decided to blame losing their games on this unit.

Panther PzKpfw V Command Tank:
How about look at what stats the aura actually gives(it gives little). Its expensive and situational, never gets to vet3 before game ends. Also belongs to never pick this commander if you want to win.

UKF command vehicle: 'cost only ammo' and doesn't applies to teammates because it would be very op.

UKF commander abilities: imo most of them is meh.

OST Artillery Field Officer: another meh never used unit.

I have average 200h per week pvp in coh2 and in the last 3 months never seen people use Panzer IV Command Tank,Panther PzKpfw V Command Tank, Artillery Field Officer, Sturm Offizier because they are that bad(except some noob 1 time).

I would have to agree with this gentleman. While in certain circumstances these aura units may be powerful they usually happen to be in lackluster commanders such as the Panzer IV Command Tank. In well coordinated teams you have to expect some level of cheesy tactics to Synergize commanders. That is just how it goes and has been since the game came out. To target these units specifically and nerf them due to how they are used in team games when you have things such as Soviet Forward HQ buffing USF/Brits, usage of multiple air strike abilities (such as multiple Air Supremacy spam or multiple P47 or CAS) would be quite silly. These Units are balanced based on the Commanders they are in as a whole and nerfing them would simply create even more useless commanders, something this game already has quite a bit of.

I would have to agree with this gentleman. While in certain circumstances these aura units may be powerful they usually happen to be in lackluster commanders such as the Panzer IV Command Tank. In well coordinated teams you have to expect some level of cheesy tactics to Synergize commanders. That is just how it goes and has been since the game came out. To target these units specifically and nerf them due to how they are used in team games when you have things such as Soviet Forward HQ buffing USF/Brits, usage of multiple air strike abilities (such as multiple Air Supremacy spam or multiple P47 or CAS) would be quite silly. These Units are balanced based on the Commanders they are in as a whole and nerfing them would simply create even more useless commanders, something this game already has quite a bit of.

Please read my previous post. We are basically saying the same thing:
- The auras are well-balanced for the commanders they are in, so don't nerf them

What I am saying on top of that, is that we should remove auras affecting friendly units:
- This will not change the viability of these commanders in 1vs1 at all.
- However, this will remove a very subtle but very real source of cheese from teamgames

What's more, is that the fix is very simple, and everyone will be happy (I think!).

I'll just say this:

Its perfectly fine in 1v1.

For team games, its a single 125fu unit giving effectively +25% health to all allies over large area and it gets disgustingly overpowered quickly there.

OKW Sturm Offizier: useless unit, if it would retreat on other players units would be still useless just more.

Panzer IV Command Tank:
Considered 'balanced' since release(meh unit, expensive, no gun, no pen, no mg, belongs to meh commanders), after almost 2 years it was changed('ease of use', not buffed( i consider it a nerf because when it affected zones depends on map it affected a larger area than the currend aura radius now)) thus people tested it if its finally has some use. Some 'beginners' decided to blame losing their games on this unit.

Panther PzKpfw V Command Tank:
How about look at what stats the aura actually gives(it gives little). Its expensive and situational, never gets to vet3 before game ends. Also belongs to never pick this commander if you want to win.

UKF command vehicle: 'cost only ammo' and doesn't applies to teammates because it would be very op.

UKF commander abilities: imo most of them is meh.

OST Artillery Field Officer: another meh never used unit.

I have average 200h per week pvp in coh2 and in the last 3 months never seen people use Panzer IV Command Tank,Panther PzKpfw V Command Tank, Artillery Field Officer, Sturm Offizier because they are that bad(except some noob 1 time).

Disagree almost entirely based on 3v3 and 4v4 experience.

Sturm Officer, behind a blob it becomes a nasty little tool. You can also drop it in buildings to get the buff without the retreat penalty. Or keep in around your teammates MG's and Mortars. If shocks close fear propaganada away.

PIV command tank, is amazing. Free buffs to all Allied units nearby, lethal to infantry that approach. Enough health to take 3 AT shells without worrying, and usually smoke.

Panther CT, outright broken in teamgames. Its vet 0 bonuses are amazing, it gets speed at vet 1, has the upgrade to MT for 40 munitions, which allows Elephants to one shot numerous Allied tanks. Otherwise it can kill any Allied tank 1v1 with it enabled. If it gets vet this all gets better, and if it gets to vet 5 it means you cannot lose the game. Your infantry shoot further, have more accuracy, are faster, and reload, faster, have longer site, and are harder to hit than many infantry at vet 3 on top of your own tanks. The MT allows you to get vet faster by making sure the Panther is always doing maximum damage.

UKF command vehicle, is at best marginal right now. Too slow to participate in combat, cool downs on commander abilities rarely that important because they are used infrequently.

Ost Field Officer, is ok. He gets vet which is nice, and he can fire smoke before attacks, which is also nice. When you get your own arty he can help saturate an area with artillery. Real problem is that all of his abilities cost munitions and you can rarely afford to do this plus the commander. He effectively gives you 2 more commander abilities.