British Emplacements

I think we can all agree it’s time we talk about the current state of the emplacements and why they need buffs and/or tweaks.
Emplacements are a major part of the British army, mostly used as defensive tools but also really effective as offensive tools but have some really huge problems.
Emplacements are expensive to the point where it can lose you the game if you lose one (more on that later), for that alone emplacements aren’t really encouraged to be offensive or used at all, another problem is their durability is rather shit dying too fast to flamers and having a large hit box which in turn means it will take damage a lot more than a regular team weapon squad, add that you can attack emplacements with AT guns and you start to see problems so let’s talk about the problems.

1. Cost
Apart from the bofors the mortar pit and the 17 pounder cost a lot of resources, is that a problem you may ask well yes it is, you see once your emplacements reaches zero health you lose it completely, you cannot salvage it or recrew it to take it back, once you lose the emplacement its gone unlike team weapon which you can take back and use them again.
This also punishes aggressive use of the emplacements (which is bad), also since emplacements cost a lot this leaves the British player with little to no resources to do anything to defend the emplacements.
2. Flame Damage
It’s time we talk about flame damage on emplacements and their role vs them.
K I get it they are meant to be an anti-garrison/cover weapon BUT why do they annihilate emplacements and not decrew them??? I mean really it makes more sense to decrew emplacements with such damage not outright wipe them, and we are talking about expensive units being outright destroyed by flame weapons/nades,I am not saying flame weapons should not do damage, I am saying they should not do THAT kind of damage and what’s with this extra bonus damage flamers do to emplacements anyways aren’t they effective enough? We should really either reduce their damage OR at least make them decrew emplacements NOT wipe them.
3. Hit Box/Size
To some this might not be huge BUT to many British players this is huge problem, this makes emplacement placing hard and in many cases forces a British player to avoid their use it also makes them a rather easy target to hit.

What can we do about them?
Well there are solutions and paths we can take to make emplacements viable and fun to play with and against
1. Emplacements should be very durable BUT the crew that operates them should take quite a bit of damage and get decrewed, this will help solve the price problem abit and problem with flamers BUT will not solve problem 3 much (you invest a lot to them but should someone attack you, you won’t lose the emplacement outright and should you take back ground you can save the emplacement and won’t lose it completely)
2. Make emplacements smaller this fixes problem 3 and in a way problem 1 BUT we don’t solve problem 2 at all (slightly harder to hit but also able to place emplacements in more places)
3. Make emplacements cheaper, this solves both problem 1 and 2 BUT doesn’t solve problem 3 at all (emplacements stay the same it they are cheaper which means you will be able to bring them sooner and be able to replace them should someone take them out)
4. Give upgrades to the British that support emplacement use (apart from the royal engineer self-repair ability and anvil heavy engineer upgrade) this will leave emplacements mostly untouched BUT can solve issue 2 and 1 and maybe even 3(ideas needed)

If something better comes to your mind please post it, it will help a lot solve this emplacement issue British are having AND allow us to remove power from other units.

I think they're pretty fine, after using them a bunch with the nerfed fire damage.

I wouldn't change a thing. Cost wise they are very cost effective and if you made them any easier to keep alive then they would be unkillable in the hands of a good player. The 17lber in particular is an extremely cost effective counter to vehicles. (2 shots panzer iv, 4 shots tiger)

If the emplacements get overrun, brit can either brace for a few seconds to muster a defense or lose them very quickly, as it should be. You still have to defend your emplacements with other units.

There are a few things that bug me about emplacements - but I'm not entirely sure it's a problem with the emplacements themselves. My problem is that their counters are too effective, and the problem largely lies with the mortar pit.

Both of the other emplacements are good, but not necessary. Without a mortar pit you have no true indirect fire unless you get a sexton, and even then you don't have indirect fire. Once the ISG counters the mortar pit, it also rules out any use of the other emplacements along with causing significant infantry bleed and trouble for weapons teams. The mortar pit simply doesn't stand a chance in indirect fire fights since it can't move and is large enough that it can't be missed either.

seriously the ISG is pain in ass, it counters UKF emplacements,USF infantry, and it is way too hard to kill, if you play UKF or USF can anyone tell me how to counter these ISGs shit when they are placed near the flak . I know sovites has katyusha.

I think they're pretty fine, after using them a bunch with the nerfed fire damage.

I wouldn't change a thing. Cost wise they are very cost effective and if you made them any easier to keep alive then they would be unkillable in the hands of a good player. The 17lber in particular is an extremely cost effective counter to vehicles. (2 shots panzer iv, 4 shots tiger)

If the emplacements get overrun, brit can either brace for a few seconds to muster a defense or lose them very quickly, as it should be. You still have to defend your emplacements with other units.

If the AXIS player ignores an emplacement he gets destroyed for sure BUT not many people are THAT stupid

Emplacements can be placed in 2 ways

Defencive(not very close to the front lines nor too far either) which will result in little use
Offencive(near the front lines)which results in alot of use BUT also the quick destruction of the emplacement

so either way you place it safe and dont use the damn thing much or place it where you need it and lose it fast,in other words not worth the cost.

brace wont be used to keep the emplacement alive until you gather your force to take it back BUT to save it from wipe abilitys i didnt even mention(apart from wipe flames)

Also flames while they got nerfed they do extra damage to emplacements which is ridiculous,so unless we reduce that extra damage emplacements,flames are still too strong vs emplacements.

There are a few things that bug me about emplacements - but I'm not entirely sure it's a problem with the emplacements themselves. My problem is that their counters are too effective, and the problem largely lies with the mortar pit.

Both of the other emplacements are good, but not necessary. Without a mortar pit you have no true indirect fire unless you get a sexton, and even then you don't have indirect fire. Once the ISG counters the mortar pit, it also rules out any use of the other emplacements along with causing significant infantry bleed and trouble for weapons teams. The mortar pit simply doesn't stand a chance in indirect fire fights since it can't move and is large enough that it can't be missed either.

the problem with those hard counters is how good they are versus the british overall(flames are anti cover weapons) same thing with mortars.

they arent AT-guns where no armor means no use BUT rather the opposite(they WILL remain useful vs the entire faction)

There just should be an option for engineers to de-build/destroy them in a situation when you know that they can't withstand another attack, or when the front lines has moved too forward. That would give you 75% resources back to rebuild later.

Emplacements should have never been put in the game imo, they are sim city pushing units. And they are NOT OFFENSIVE weapons, they are defensive. They force OH commander slot and choice, and if you allow 2 or 3 volks to walk up and throw their nades then it's poor planning.

Emplacements should have never been put in the game imo, they are sim city pushing units. And they are NOT OFFENSIVE weapons, they are defensive. They force OH commander slot and choice, and if you allow 2 or 3 volks to walk up and throw their nades then it's poor planning.

a few games as British with current patch will change your mind

"NOT OFFENCIVE"??

Defencive(not very close to the front lines nor too far either) which will result in little use
Offencive(near the front lines)which results in alot of use BUT also the quick destruction of the emplacement

you understand now why people dont bother with the defencive thing much since you wont use them much

I think they're pretty fine, after using them a bunch with the nerfed fire damage.

I wouldn't change a thing. Cost wise they are very cost effective and if you made them any easier to keep alive then they would be unkillable in the hands of a good player. The 17lber in particular is an extremely cost effective counter to vehicles. (2 shots panzer iv, 4 shots tiger)

If the emplacements get overrun, brit can either brace for a few seconds to muster a defense or lose them very quickly, as it should be. You still have to defend your emplacements with other units.

Pretty much right. But i think they are pretty much easy to keep alive these days, if you just have an AT gun near a Bofors, tank can only drive in to get some damage, bofors survives, maybe an addional vickers and you have a very good defense. I'd say if you need to do something about emplacements, let brace not take that much damage away from the attacks, maybe 5% less bonus to damage taken away, because it can be really punishing fighting against a emplacement , for example road to kharkov or crossing from north behind the trees towards bottom fuel, you waste a lot of time and it will not die.

People want sim city and will not get it.

Emplacements should have never been put in the game imo, they are sim city pushing units. And they are NOT OFFENSIVE weapons, they are defensive. They force OH commander slot and choice, and if you allow 2 or 3 volks to walk up and throw their nades then it's poor planning.

Exactly the same can be said about whole friggin OKW faction and yet its here and not going anywhere with their uber sim city tech, in fact that is being supported even more by all the nerfs to things that pose even remote danger to them, regardless of how huge cost they have(talking about off-maps here).

Exactly the same can be said about whole friggin OKW faction and yet its here and not going anywhere with their uber sim city tech, in fact that is being supported even more by all the nerfs to things that pose even remote danger to them, regardless of how huge cost they have(talking about off-maps here).

I get your point, but only one OkW building fires a weapon. And if you lose that your delayed and shit out of luck to anything in that tech. Meanwhile we are talking about motors, supported by bofers, supported by AT guns. Big difference. Not to mention OkW buildings don't press a button and magically become near invincible...

I get your point, but only one OkW building fires a weapon. And if you lose that your delayed and shit out of luck to anything in that tech. Meanwhile we are talking about motors, supported by bofers, supported by AT guns. Big difference. Not to mention OkW buildings don't press a button and magically become near invincible...

How should he know that they get invincible if he is nothing but a forum warrior? :-)

There just should be an option for engineers to de-build/destroy them in a situation when you know that they can't withstand another attack, or when the front lines has moved too forward. That would give you 75% resources back to rebuild later.

That is solid risk reward thinking right there. Let me spend all these resources on an emplacement and put it somewhere fancy. Ah what does it matter, I can get back 75% when trouble hits, who gives a ****.

#legit

Exactly the same can be said about whole friggin OKW faction and yet its here and not going anywhere with their uber sim city tech, in fact that is being supported even more by all the nerfs to things that pose even remote danger to them, regardless of how huge cost they have(talking about off-maps here).

+1, It takes at guns tanks mortars pretty much every thing you have and off map artillery to normally counter or destroy a well placed flak hq. Thanks to there extremely durable fwd reinforce truck they can also react to defend them very quickly.

I think the brit fwd reinforcement point should have a bit more HP. Mainly I think brit emplacements are fine especially with royal engi it is the giving incendiary grenades to volks that is a problem. I remember most axis players saying they did not even ask for them to be on volks, but on sturms. Too many volks always around with the best AT weapon that also counters emplacements with a cheap grenade that two counter a very expensive brit emplacment. Maybe the bofos should have more HP because it should be able to better be used for area denial like the flak hq. Bofors and cent were over nerfed last patch.

I get your point, but only one OkW building fires a weapon. And if you lose that your delayed and shit out of luck to anything in that tech. Meanwhile we are talking about motors, supported by bofers, supported by AT guns. Big difference. Not to mention OkW buildings don't press a button and magically become near invincible...

Well, only recently there was the infamous ISG meta, where you parked 2 ISGs near schwerer HQ and med truck little behind.

If that isn't the definition of sim city, then I don't know what is.

Sure, okw trucks are tiers, but so were brit trucks in coh1, I don't see nearly half the complaining about trucks as I see about people being literally terrified of emplacements. It might not be the most pleasant playstyle to fight against, but its there for much longer then a year now and the brit emplacements have clear, exploitable weaknesses you can abuse, like sustained ISG barrages, incendiary mortar or simply exploiting brace cooldown to one shot them with off-maps and emplacements still put greater economical strain on the player then okw trucks by having popcap and therefore upkeep alone.

We have valid and strong sim city playstyles for a long time already, its the OKW meta since forever.
Brit emplacements aren't even close to meta.
Allies get the option for it and suddenly everyone loses their mind.

I get your point, but only one OkW building fires a weapon. And if you lose that your delayed and shit out of luck to anything in that tech. Meanwhile we are talking about motors, supported by bofers, supported by AT guns. Big difference. Not to mention OkW buildings don't press a button and magically become near invincible...

You never have rakatens, liegs, volks supporting your trucks? Okw building don't have to press a button ( that also has a long cool down ) because two molotovs don't destroy it.... or any incendiary barrage, etc I do not even think does any dmg what so ever. Exact opposite for brits.

17 pounder costs too much popcap and could use a range adjustment. Otherwise they're fine as the fire dmg got nerfed.

Well, only recently there was the infamous ISG meta, where you parked 2 ISGs near schwerer HQ and med truck little behind.

If that isn't the definition of sim city, then I don't know what is.

Sure, okw trucks are tiers, but so were brit trucks in coh1, I don't see nearly half the complaining about trucks as I see about people being literally terrified of emplacements. It might not be the most pleasant playstyle to fight against, but its there for much longer then a year now and the brit emplacements have clear, exploitable weaknesses you can abuse, like sustained ISG barrages, incendiary mortar or simply exploiting brace cooldown to one shot them with off-maps and emplacements still put greater economical strain on the player then okw trucks by having popcap and therefore upkeep alone.

We have valid and strong sim city playstyles for a long time already, its the OKW meta since forever.
Brit emplacements aren't even close to meta.
Allies get the option for it and suddenly everyone loses their mind.

Sorry then you don't know what sim city is...

This is coh2. Not coh1. Different game, different time, different fourms. Don't know why you brought that one up. But if you say so, I remember coh1. British being a fail.

As I stated. Only one truck has a weapon on it. So you trying to compare all the british emplacements to the OKW trucks are irrelevant. It's silly at best. And yes of course it's going to create an economy strain. Otherwise you'll have a better sim city then the actual sim city game itself