How to fix the Clown car

Okay, so nobody likes the Clown car (ahem, Bren Carrier) in it's particular form. The flamethrower in the clown car is bad enough, but guards and snipers shooting from them? That just breaks the game. I was trying building multiple sniper cars... let's say, the grens can't even get a faust off because the snipers just kill the grens before they can even get a chance to fire the faust.

What I think that we should do with the Clown car is to say that infantry cannot shoot from the clowncar in general. The whole opening should be more focused on infantry dancing around VCOH style (which is interesting) and not clown car/flamer rush into enemy lines which is broken... Given you get 2 kills per time you rush the clown car in, it is always going to be cost effective MPwise.

However, the russians will probably need their own version of the flammenwerfer (in order to break MG42 walls) so what I propose is that the clown car can come with an upgrade costing 60-70 munitions to install a flamethrower in the clown car (same as getting a flamethrower on a combat engineer). It however, cannot transport infantry afterwards (same as the German flammenwerfer). To balance this "nerf", the clown car should only be made slightly tankier with a little bit more HP.

Thoughts?

I like it... but not an integral flamethrower.

The M3 should be like a building in that only a limited number of troops can fire out of it, and in the case of the flamethrower, accuracy is reduced.

So a sniper *could* fire out of it but with a reload and accuracy penalty. Ditto a flamethrower. A normal squad could only have two rifles / smgs firing from it.

This would require hardly any alteration to wehr, as this rewards good micro on both sides. Skilful positioning of the clown cars (because you'd need more for the tactic to work, making the fuel sacrifice more of an early game issue) would still reap rewards plus the wehr infantry, if micro'd properly, would get the chance to counter the clown car with fausts. I would give the M3 a very marginal armour upgrade to compensate.

However, I wouldn't change the existing M3 armament at all. It's a good unit in of itself, a turbocharged vCoH jeep. It's just that the carrying armed units thing that is causing the problem.

Why not shift the M3 to T0 and remove the troop carrying ability completely, to make it a proper jeep analogue?

Or perhaps leave it as it is, and allow nothing but standard rifles/smgs to fire out of it i.e. no flamers, at-rifles, sniper rifles, etc? That way you could still drop flamers off behind MGs, but with no risk of hunting down retreating units.

In a related note

Here is something from today's patch notes

"Anti-Tank grenades and Panzerfaust:
- Range reduced from 20 to 15"

Um, relic, why are you effectively buffing the most abused unit in the game?

@Strummingbird

Standard rifles/smgs do little or no damage anyway... you might as well say nothing at all. Maybe the T0 Idea can work if the M3 can reinforce. Otherwise, it's unviable.

The faust and atnade range was reduced the patch before last, and imo it was a good idea. Previous range made it pretty impossible to kite grens/scripts.

I wouldn't say T0 without reinforcing isn't viable- one M3 costs less than a molotov upgrade. Having the M3 reinforce at T0 would be pretty broken, I imagine

the M3 should be completely removed from the game that is the solution. Soviets had their own scout car called BA-64 they replace it with this M3 and we are fine. Right now soviet army is relic favourite faction why ? because comp stomping world loves to play a game which their units could use 10000 abilities therefore they will enjoy playing with soviets since one unit can role as everything this means = making alot of money

Strummingbird

Yeah, it would have been fine if it weren't for the two (or one after they nerfed the flammenwerfer) most abused vehicles in the game.

If they drastically change the M3, I'm fine with the change but right now, it's impossible to faust the M3 without taking some flame damage.

And let's not talk about snipers either.

Honestly I think a proper mine + single shreck upgrade for the germans would solve most of the M3 complaints. There's no real need to change the M3 itself drastically, once flame damage on retreat goes down and units inside the M3 are damaged/killed when the car itself explodes.

I think Relic should haevily consider switiching to scout car with roof installed



or a version with light anti tank gun mounted on it.


I even wouldn't minde if it could still garrison one unit in it, but be fine if you can't. Also, you could still go tier 3 M5 for soviet drive-by havoc party time.

The really good players don't even use it. I got mauled by a guy so good at micro, there was only the site of the T 34 and lots of inf on the field...no need for Clown Car. The Car is used for quick tactics to fight off better players than yourself usually who like to mg spam. Then....you can gain a foothold and pray he doesn't come back to win....which he might. In my opinion, a better player is a better player...and that's that. I lost as Soviets vs a gren spam master and I lost vs a scripts spam master...had no chance either way. Quit whining about the clown car already. Rage quit if you see one....no one really cares. Just keep grens close...or get out your own AC with upgraded gun....then he's toast. If you have bad map control, you're gonna most likely lose unless you pull off a Qvazar.

You're either really bad...or really dumb.

The really good players don't even use it. I got mauled by a guy so good at micro, there was only the site of the T 34 and lots of inf on the field...no need for Clown Car. The Car is used for quick tactics to fight off better players than yourself usually who like to mg spam. Then....you can gain a foothold and pray he doesn't come back to win....which he might. In my opinion, a better player is a better player...and that's that. I lost as Soviets vs a gren spam master and I lost vs a scripts spam master...had no chance either way. Quit whining about the clown car already. Rage quit if you see one....no one really cares. Just keep grens close...or get out your own AC with upgraded gun....then he's toast. If you have bad map control, you're gonna most likely lose unless you pull off a Qvazar.

Yeah, personally, I do not like using the Clown car - I believe that it's broken and no game is fun being centered around this. Personally, I prefer T0->T2->T4 as soviets, but I prefer playing ost these days because it's harder

I'm talking more about 2v2 and 3v3 where it's certainly viable for you to build 2 sniper cars and your ally to pump out AT guns and Maxims. With this, the 2 sniper cars are uncounterable in the early game. You certainly do not want to faust the sniper cars at all! I've tried this and it's more ridiculous than Barton's (or inverse's) famous SSSSS strat because how can you kill a sniper that moves quickly and barely takes any health damage?

The Clown car desperately needs a fix and no-one wants it to become another bren carrier.

Honestly I think a proper mine + single shreck upgrade for the germans would solve most of the M3 complaints. There's no real need to change the M3 itself drastically, once flame damage on retreat goes down and units inside the M3 are damaged/killed when the car itself explodes.

can you show me this tactic in 1v1 please ? i just rush one clown car with flamers inside and get the whole map from you since you are running away and dying on retreat cause flaming car is chasing you and how can you get 120ammo for schrecks and then 50 or 60 muni (not so sure ) for teller mine ? by the way did you see my SNF 2v2 replay which got casted thanks to tommy and fatal , that i lay teller mine on the road which that clown car was coming from and it hits and only takes %15 damage ? then engineers inside come out and repair it in no time....

can you show me this tactic in 1v1 please ? i just rush one clown car with flamers inside and get the whole map from you since you are running away and dying on retreat cause flaming car is chasing you and how can you get 120ammo for schrecks and then 50 or 60 muni (not so sure ) for teller mine ? by the way did you see my SNF 2v2 replay which got casted thanks to tommy and fatal , that i lay teller mine on the road which that clown car was coming from and it hits and only takes %15 damage ? then engineers inside come out and repair it in no time....

He wasn't talking about what's currently available, nothing which he suggested is currently available.

He was just saying what needs to be done with the Germans so they can counter the Clowncar.

Just take the ability to mount Snipers and everything is okay. Flamers get 2 Faust and Sc is down

I thought the infantry dancing in vcoh was pretty stupid. IMO increase MP cost, remove ability to fire from it for all units and buff the MG and sight radius so it works kinda like a early but delicate assault vehicle.