[OKW] [All Modes] [2x ISG ending the game VS brits]

Johhny, what if I play Soviets and US and in fact have no emplacements. Are you saying the LeIG is magically unable to fire at my troops and supress them from mortar range with zero micro requirement?

I suppose I just want an "I win button", huh. I'm such a noob.

Is this different+ from any other mortar?

A single Leig/Pack Howie does not insta-pin. Please someone show me a replay where this happens, because I have yet to see it. The unit either needs a cost increase or a slight scatter increase, but don't make it like it was before where it was a very inaccurate PoS.

The way it is right now if Axis units even get a breeze from the shell of the Pack Howitzer it suppresses them, and almost always pins on hit.

The lieg rarely pins, but because it is a laser like artillery piece it tends to suppress on 75% of shots.

No he is correct their is a shitload of bias here. despite the pak howie does FAR more damage and suppression their is not single thread about it. current leigh is fine and people need to accept that this unit is actually useful.

Christ this reminds when the mg42 got buffed to no longer suck their was a major outcry by noobie fanboys that could no longer oorah + molotov right into a mg42.

the differnc beetwen the PAK and the LFG is the range an the possibility of OKW to stand just behind T4 or next to T2. So the LFG is saver and has 100 (with vet to 115) range and the PAK 80.

No he is correct their is a shitload of bias here. despite the pak howie does FAR more damage and suppression their is not single thread about it. current leigh is fine and people need to accept that this unit is actually useful.

Maybe because it costs 380mp and USF doesn't float manpower? Maybe because it doesn't nullify any forward OKW hq by existing? Current leigh would be fine if brits weren't in the trash can getting pounded by relic nerfs

The problem is that brits lack a counter proper counter for isg spam.
Soviets -> Katyusha
USF -> Priest / Pack Howi spam
Brits -> ??? AVRE but it comes far too late to be an effective counter.

The infantry support gun/pack howi should provide indirect fire to support your units and punish turteling, but they should not win all the engangments on their own. Right now they act like supressing platforms with huge ranges.
They were fine before the recent changes, but now the are far too dominant.

In addition infantry support guns hard counter brit emplacements since brace was nerfed. Games simply don't make fun anymore since infantry combat, a core mechanic, is nullified by team weapon spam.

But infantry combat wasn't nullified in the early game by bofors? Any squad running into one of them was 95% lost. They still do alot of damage and supression to nullify infantry combat even in present though they are alot more balanced.
In addition, the pack howies are killing like hell also, and I didn't hear anyone complaining about them. Perhaps because they are underused since USF has alot of diversity compared to OKW. In fact, that's the problem, OKW has nothing in early game against emplacements except this.

If ISG will be modified, its capacity against emplacements must be kept if not buffed.

Related to infantry combat, I can see what two ISG's placed behind a wall of volks + sturms/fusiliers can do, but how can these units stand against recently buffed allied base infantry? I could blob my OKW opponents to death as USF killing volks and obersoldaten alike with riflemen and REs with BARS just because the poor guys didn't have ISGs behind.

ISG is to good? Fine, nerf it, but buff the mg34, increase price and make it a stock unit or else anyone could mop the floor with OKW infantry base units, let's face it.

But infantry combat wasn't nullified in the early game by bofors? Any squad running into one of them was 95% lost. They still do alot of damage and supression to nullify infantry combat even in present though they are alot more balanced.

It was and got fixed. ISG/PACK are also over performing and I advocate just to reverse the changes, as the units were fine before. Just the vet 1 ability on the ISG should be useful.

In addition, the pack howies are killing like hell also, and I didn't hear anyone complaining about them. Perhaps because they are underused since USF has alot of diversity compared to OKW. In fact, that's the problem, OKW has nothing in early game against emplacements except this.

I complain about pack howis too...

If ISG will be modified, its capacity against emplacements must be kept if not buffed.

It performs just like it performed before the last patches buff. It performance against turtling/emplacement won't change by that.

Related to infantry combat, I can see what two ISG's placed behind a wall of volks + sturms/fusiliers can do, but how can these units stand against recently buffed allied base infantry? I could blob my OKW opponents to death as USF killing volks and obersoldaten alike with riflemen and REs with BARS just because the poor guys didn't have ISGs behind.

Unfortunately relic decided that late game infantry should not be killed with other infantry units anymore. Which I personally find stupid, but if you check the late game most wipes are due tanks, indirect fire, off map abilities etc. and not through infantry combat. Yet Rifles will be turned down a bit, so their received accuracy is not as insane as it is right now.

Maybe because it costs 380mp and USF doesn't float manpower? Maybe because it doesn't nullify any forward OKW hq by existing? Current leigh would be fine if brits weren't in the trash can getting pounded by relic nerfs

And? leig is still fine.

the differnc beetwen the PAK and the LFG is the range an the possibility of OKW to stand just behind T4 or next to T2. So the LFG is saver and has 100 (with vet to 115) range and the PAK 80.

Guess the pak cannot stand next to the major then. Once again you alos ignore the difference between aoe and suppression.

• Problem2x ISG has became a nightmare for anyone playing as brits these days. The 2 rather cheap arties render all brits emplacements useless and also wipe IS and pin and wipe HMGs.
  
  
  
• Solution #1: Increase the cost to 500MP and reduce the penetration value from 80 down to 25 and lower the range to 70. or;
  
  
• Solution #2: Remove the pinning effect and reduce the penetration value from 80 down to 25 and lower the range to 70.
  
  

Its range needs to be much shorter than what it currently is.

Right description of a problem, wrong proposed solution IMO. Improve brit artillery counterplay instead of nerfing ISG is the right way in my opinion.

ISG is clearly over performing. Price needs to go up and scatter needs to go up. Reduce scatter with vet, reduce vet requirements.

In every team game I am seeing 2+ of these. In some games I see more than 4, at which point any infantry moving near the area are instantly pinned or wiped. Unit is too mindless for its place on the field. It is also doing good damage to vehicles.

The gun should be useful, but not this useful.

Solution: Revert the changes of the pack howitzer and the ISG and add a smoke barrage as a vet 1 ability instead of an increased range for ISG.

+1

thread/

No he is correct their is a shitload of bias here. despite the pak howie does FAR more damage and suppression their is not single thread about it. current leigh is fine and people need to accept that this unit is actually useful.

Christ this reminds when the mg42 got buffed to no longer suck their was a major outcry by noobie fanboys that could no longer oorah + molotov right into a mg42.

Yea with the mg 42 buff was a total shitstorm, but the buff was on without the brits, the problem is that, Brits got no fancy mobile mortar, no flamethrowers until croco (only if you manage to survive) the only solution is grenade, and brits don't get smoke to grenande an mg well placed.

The ISG really just need to get their dmg vs brits emplacement lowered (not drastically, like 5 shots more to kill it), i think it's the soft solution because it doesn't touch efficiency overall

And for the pack howie, with the rife blob i don't see them that much but howie need a small tweak for sure

Is this different+ from any other mortar?

If they are all one and the same in your mind, you are saying you wouldn't mind swapping the LeIG with 82mm then?

ISG is clearly over performing. Price needs to go up and scatter needs to go up. Reduce scatter with vet, reduce vet requirements.

In every team game I am seeing 2+ of these. In some games I see more than 4, at which point any infantry moving near the area are instantly pinned or wiped. Unit is too mindless for its place on the field. It is also doing good damage to vehicles.

The gun should be useful, but not this useful.

Add to this cancer mix the Medical Truck and the fun ez mode on is served to the OKW.

Why lack of mobility/retreat is even an issue? If you have them next to med truk and schwerer, you don't need to retreat.

Double leigs is so bs currently.
Sitting safe next to med truck, schwerer and sniping everything in range of 100+


Before you can get Katy, you will bleed like hell.

Did not that Major kill everything in damn long range preventing from infnatry assault

Priest is the only option for USF but again, late game and it leaves you vunerable to tanks since you must invest in priests.

Laser gun with suppression, negating any cover play, with short shells travel time, destroying all emplacements.

Pack howies might be good, but they don't have 115 range, they are not protected by med truck and schwerer and USF don't float MP like hell so they cannot afford getting 2 of them.

Today I had a game on Kharkov against OKW. I outplayed him with infantry very well.
Vet 3 cons, vet 3 Maxim, vet 3 shocks but he had well digged down position with med and schwerer I could not approach. He made 2 legis and kept them safe in that spot.
It was insane. He was losing squads all the time, bad micro etc but leigs did the job themselfs suppressin and wiping my infantry all the time without chance to react.

Why lack of mobility/retreat is even an issue? If you have them next to med truk and schwerer, you don't need to retreat.

Double leigs is so bs currently.
Sitting safe next to med truck, schwerer and sniping everything in range of 100+


Before you can get Katy, you will bleed like hell.

Did not that Major kill everything in damn long range preventing from infnatry assault

Priest is the only option for USF but again, late game and it leaves you vunerable to tanks since you must invest in priests.

Laser gun with suppression, negating any cover play, with short shells travel time, destroying all emplacements.

Pack howies might be good, but they don't have 115 range, they are not protected by med truck and schwerer and USF don't float MP like hell so they cannot afford getting 2 of them.

Today I had a game on Kharkov against OKW. I outplayed him with infantry very well.
Vet 3 cons, vet 3 Maxim, vet 3 shocks but he had well digged down position with med and schwerer I could not approach. He made 2 legis and kept them safe in that spot.
It was insane. He was losing squads all the time, bad micro etc but leigs did the job themselfs suppressin and wiping my infantry all the time without chance to react.

im not playing much, and last time i played with the leig i had the feeling its overperforming too. on the other end i feel like its really hard as axis vs allys atm in 2v2 AT games. brits have simply such a great synergy with both usf and soviet(the extreme OP things aside, since most of them got adressed alrdy). BUT its hard for me to believe that u lost the game after several FUKs and only because leig. sounds more like missplayed.

There were numerous times after last patch where the leiG projectile one-shot my sniper and it usually needs two shots to pin a squad, rendering the squad useless and forcing it to retreat. Since it auto-fires, has no set-up time and a long range, it makes it very annoying and frustrating to play against with every faction. The Howitzer has shorter range afaik, but suffers from the same "problem".

However, things like range, rof, penetration, scatter etc. can all be used for fine tuning, but are not a solution to the core problem. The core issue with Brits is that they lack light artillery entirely. Everything indirect they have is slow, heavy, has long cooldowns, long delay and attracts immediate attention as soon as the gun thunder comes rolling in and costs munitions. The Brits need something smaller, artillery without extra costs, on demand light indirect fire, be it mid game (leIG) or late game (Katjuscha). The mortar pit is helpless. Which is bad, considering it costs more and can't move.

im not playing much, and last time i played with the leig i had the feeling its overperforming too. on the other end i feel like its really hard as axis vs allys atm in 2v2 AT games. brits have simply such a great synergy with both usf and soviet(the extreme OP things aside, since most of them got adressed alrdy). BUT its hard for me to believe that u lost the game after several FUKs and only because leig. sounds more like missplayed.

I nevers said I lost.
I won but because of leigs it lasted for 50mins, not 25mins.

You are confusing it with the leFH i think.

I think you're just ignoring my point or you don't understand it. The ISG is a support gun like the pack howi, if you try and move it around the map like a mortar you are inviting it to be decrewed and stolen (unlike a conventional mortar that can move danger close behind infantry and then retreat back to HQ if you run into trouble, even surviving with 1-2 men).

Hence why both the ISG and Pack howi need superior range.

Honestly feel like the problem is its lack of micro required for it to have an impact, as Australian Magic said, the OKW player places it next to his med hq, and has it suppress and drop models any time its in range not even needing to handle it unless enemy squads are nearby, while Mr. Allies is busy microing his ass off splitting his squads to avoid getting everything pinned in one shot.