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USF M15 AA HT

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drChengele
19 Sep 2015, 11:25 AM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 10:53 AMRMMLz
Rear armor, more penetrating small arms. Although I don't know if the damage is negligible or not.
The damage of small arms isn't quite negligible, not really apparent with rifles, lots of the shots bounce and the ones that hit take 8 hit points, hardly much. Because of the way burst weapons work (lots of lower accuracy shots paired against high vehicle target size) they inflict actually visible damage on poorly armoured units.

Btw in that part I was replying specifically to the guy who mentioned AT guns.

I liked the rear fire arc, it was actually a really nice touch, made the unit different, and I got used to having to reverse it all the time. I agree Lt tier could use a buff but it's not like AAHT was underused or underpowered before...
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Australian Magic
19 Sep 2015, 11:38 AM
#42
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 11:25 AMdrChengele
it's not like AAHT was underused or underpowered before...


To be honest, since Cpt buff, I havent seen ANY AA HT. Only Stuarts.
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Katitof
19 Sep 2015, 12:25 PM
#43
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 10:53 AMRMMLz


Rear armor, more penetrating small arms. Although I don't know if the damage is negligible or not.

Unless you had PTRS at least, the small arms was no threat to it at all, same for OKW AA ht, it have low armor, but it doesn't matter, you won't be living long enough to threat it without AT.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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BeefSurge
19 Sep 2015, 13:51 PM
#44
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Posts: 1891

M15 spam with flame rifle spam into Sherman spam
The Fascisti Will Pay.
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adamírcz
19 Sep 2015, 13:53 PM
#45
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Posts: 955

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 13:51 PMBeefSurge
M15 spam with flame rifle spam into Sherman spam

Not that USF would have other options than spam rifles, but if someone tries to spam M15, he will never get to that sherman spam... and BTW jackson spam is usually better.
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
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Katitof
19 Sep 2015, 13:57 PM
#46
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 13:51 PMBeefSurge
M15 spam with flame rifle spam into Sherman spam

Why would anyone get M15 again when Stuart is much better, price comparable and comes with much useful tier?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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adamírcz
19 Sep 2015, 13:59 PM
#47
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 13:57 PMKatitof

Why would anyone get M15 again when Stuart is much better, price comparable and comes with much useful tier?

Stuart better as anti-infantry? Really? I should try it.
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
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Katitof
19 Sep 2015, 14:08 PM
#48
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 13:59 PMadamírcz

Stuart better as anti-infantry? Really? I should try it.

Better as in more maneuverable, much more durable, useful against other lights and somewhat useful vs meds.

There isn't much reason to get M15 over stuart, even captain presence>lt presence as you're getting some mobile AT that isn't completely without AI either.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Grumpy
19 Sep 2015, 14:25 PM
#49
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 13:57 PMKatitof

Why would anyone get M15 again when Stuart is much better, price comparable and comes with much useful tier?


You get it when someone is using Stuka CAS loiter. Even then, loiter is almost guaranteed to kill at least one tank, even if you retreat immediately and have the M15. If they don't have it, the Stuart is better.
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slother
19 Sep 2015, 14:36 PM
#50
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Posts: 145

M5 quad is fearsome, now AA HT, so flak halftruck is next?
20:53 - slother: its time
20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: fail time
20:54 - slother: its time to lose our streak
20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: hehe let me have a shower
20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: i need to feel clean for the rape
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Australian Magic
19 Sep 2015, 14:43 PM
#51
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 14:36 PMslother
M5 quad is fearsome, now AA HT, so flak halftruck is next?


Why 251/17 should attack on move? It does not use MGs, but Flak gun.

Yet, 251/17 is deadly while Quad and AA are not that deadly.

Show me a game where AA can achieve over 50kills. You won't find it, but you will find plenty games with such amazing 251/17 usage.
It can kill whole squad in 1 burst. That's enough reason to make it stationary.
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MoerserKarL
19 Sep 2015, 14:56 PM
#52
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 14:43 PMAustralian Magic


It can kill whole squad in 1 burst. That's enough reason to make it stationary.



Luchs, FlakHT and FlakHQ changed into accuracy based attacks like centaur with less aoe than before. They're all somewhat better against stuff in buildings.
FlakHT is generally better at suppressing but seemed worse at killing. (penetration nerfed from 20/25/30 to 20/20/20)
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BeefSurge
19 Sep 2015, 14:57 PM
#53
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 13:57 PMKatitof

Why would anyone get M15 again when Stuart is much better, price comparable and comes with much useful tier?


Because of timing and anti infantry power. As long as you avoid mines it's totally reasonable to knock the opponent off of the map with two M15s. Counter to this is (kinda) Puma, Paks, and call-in armor.

The Fascisti Will Pay.
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elchino7
19 Sep 2015, 15:22 PM
#54
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 14:25 PMGrumpy


You get it when someone is using Stuka CAS loiter. Even then, loiter is almost guaranteed to kill at least one tank, even if you retreat immediately and have the M15. If they don't have it, the Stuart is better.


You don't have CAS loiters at 3CPs. And you don't get Stuarts at that point of the game neither.

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 03:03 AMAlexzandvar


The fact it had to expose it's rear armor meant that it took more damage from small arms and whatnot. It also had a disadvantage because you could flank it by catching it from the front. Right now it doesn't have that anymore and can simply attack while keeping it's frontal armor toward the enemy improving it's durability against small arms and making it harder to kill.

The Flack Track got doubled nerfed this patch to, fun times :foreveralone:

But I think the Flak HT if it's going to be forced to have a set up and have crappy pen should have like Puma HP (480).


Puma is 400HP.

Damage from small arm fire is almost meaningless. 15/10 armor, so barely a 10% to 6% difference. And this only reallistically affect MGs and automatic weapons. In either case neither is an effective solution (unless incendiary rounds preemptively activated) cause you have to get close to actually do any meaningfully damage.

Regarding flanking it, i guess you had a 0.5-1s of advantage but forget about circle strafing with a 222 Puma (in this case just use range) or P2. My point is, while a buff per se, it's not like it makes any difference in 95% of the cases.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

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slother
19 Sep 2015, 20:52 PM
#55
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Posts: 145

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 14:43 PMAustralian Magic


Why 251/17 should attack on move? It does not use MGs, but Flak gun.

Yet, 251/17 is deadly while Quad and AA are not that deadly.

Show me a game where AA can achieve over 50kills. You won't find it, but you will find plenty games with such amazing 251/17 usage.
It can kill whole squad in 1 burst. That's enough reason to make it stationary.


Well I can show u alot of games where flakht hits ground most of time.Also I dont remind myself or game i watched where i didnt came to conclusion that flakht wasnt wasted of fuel. This unit isnt considered useless only thanks to "slide setup bug". Quad is not deadly? Oh come on it wrecks stuff and suppress like there is no tommarrow and it kills flakht too...

And yes it got ninja nerfed this patch...
20:53 - slother: its time
20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: fail time
20:54 - slother: its time to lose our streak
20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: hehe let me have a shower
20:54 - Вοгіﻛ Τ Rατ: i need to feel clean for the rape
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Australian Magic
19 Sep 2015, 21:24 PM
#56
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 20:52 PMslother


Well I can show u alot of games where flakht hits ground most of time.Also I dont remind myself or game i watched where i didnt came to conclusion that flakht wasnt wasted of fuel. This unit isnt considered useless only thanks to "slide setup bug". Quad is not deadly? Oh come on it wrecks stuff and suppress like there is no tommarrow and it kills flakht too...

And yes it got ninja nerfed this patch...

Provide me few replays with quad with over 50kills.
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Alexzandvar
19 Sep 2015, 21:43 PM
#57
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jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 21:24 PMAustralian Magic

Provide me few replays with quad with over 50kills.


You do know that the larger squad sizes of Allied squads make using killed models as a way of judging deadliness stupid right?

They nerfed the Flak Track and buffed the M15 AA HT. Ultimately another example of why this patch is hot flaming garbage on a stick.
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SirRaven of Coventry
19 Sep 2015, 22:25 PM
#58
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Posts: 167

Permanently Banned
M5 quad for everyone :banana:

Oh wait, not for axis :lolol:
jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2015, 07:58 AMKatitof

I am realistic and thoughtful.
You're the one who is blind to that, ignoring overpowering synergy that would create for ost, imbalancing completely their tiering and tech pace.
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Nuclear Arbitor
20 Sep 2015, 01:50 AM
#59
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Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Sep 2015, 10:43 AMdrChengele
Did... did any one of you guys complaining about the teardown time even field a Flak HT in the past six months? Because I got news for you!


nope, OKW is my least favorite faction.
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Firesparks
20 Sep 2015, 04:37 AM
#60
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Posts: 1930

increase the fuel cost of lt to 60. This way the LT have the m15 to the capt's stuart.


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