Early counters to UC flamer?

I don't really get this. After several attempts to find a proper counter, I can't see any counter to the bren carrier flamer. At least not a counter which comes at the same time and at a comparable price.

And no: a pak is not an early counter. Neither are shreks. Both require tech which cannot arrive untill long after the early UC flamer.

The problem as I see it is not the carrier itself.It can be damaged. The problem is the damage the flames do to anything that is supposed to counter it.

MGs, grens....what other options do I have before teching? Fausts? Requires 2 to kill it. Quite expensive and quite hard to get in range because the range of the flame is hughe. And does it do damage fast! MGs are toast in Buildings, but even outside they will lose 2-3 models before it retreats. Same to a lesser extend with grens.

I tried to encircle it so it cannot reverse out of danger while it keeps killing.

However, by the time the UK player can have a UC flamer, I can have 1 mg and two grens. Not much of an encirclement as the brit player - if he has any wits - will also have at least one tommy squad. IOWs encirclement won't work and will surely cost you at least one unit.

I looked at the various doctrines. I can't see any early help there.

Any suggestions?

What is 222

What is 222?
BC dont hurt me.
Dont hurt me.
No more.

But seriously, best way is to rush 222, even though you propably would get it a little bit late, but its k. Later on it can giv you vision on enemy emplacements.

However, by the time the UK player can have a UC flamer, I can have 1 mg and two grens. won't work and will surely cost you at least one unit.

Wait, what? How fast are Brit players teching these days?


It's 200 mp and 35 fuel. and then 90 muni plus the time.

I would think you would have at least 3 grens and an MG with a second MG on the way.



You can always lay an early teller mine. It's dicey but it can pull off. Roads, chokepoints are good spots for mines.

if you're in team games you can have an OKW ally get an early raketenwerfer.


As for actual counters, 222. I find it gets easily killed by an AEC or a QF 6 lbr but forcing your opponent to get AEC instead of bofors is good, and with proper micro you can dodge said AT gun. Or panzer tactician. Panzer tactician is a godsend.

just get like 3-4 222s and instawin vs brits m8

just get like 3-4 222s and instawin vs brits m8

3 to 4??? Are you serious? I'd be happy if I could get 1 in time.

The problem here is the flamer UC arrives first. I get pushed off map control if I don't have a counter at the same time.

And perhaps I should have specified that this is mainly a 1v1 problem. Hence teller mines are not really an option unless you want to go w/o lmg or shrek for a long time.

I'm not so worried about Bofors any more. It's this wrecking of the early game that is a problem.

Nvm, read too fast.

Hey SgtBulldog!

Get a sniper and then 3x T1 Units.



You push your enemy with your sniper and also you use your grens to try to faust your enemy bren carrier.

UKF players usually do this strat versus OST:



They are waiting for a mistake, playing so defensive and also trying to build up a Boofors!

Hey SgtBulldog!

Get a sniper and then 3x T1 Units.

You push your enemy with your sniper and also you use your grens to try to faust your enemy bren carrier.

UKF players usually do this strat versus OST:

They are waiting for a mistake, playing so defensive and also trying to build up a Boofors!

Thanks. I tried something like this (the first 4 builds).

The brits I played did not play it defensively, though. Whenever my mg and one or two grens are located, that's where the UC flamer is instantly rushed forward - supported by 1 or two tommies. With good reason, because it works.

I think the tricky part is not the build order, but the how-to with grens. You see I can't get in range to faust fast enough because of the damned range of that flame. And the UC can just back off a bit if I try to close in.

You wouldn't happen to have a replay that shows this?

PS: the sniper is not as good an idea anylonger, now that the UC sniper detection has been improved.

Hey SgtBulldog!

Get a sniper and then 3x T1 Units.

You push your enemy with your sniper and also you use your grens to try to faust your enemy bren carrier.

UKF players usually do this strat versus OST:

They are waiting for a mistake, playing so defensive and also trying to build up a Boofors!

Hey jesulin , i watched one of ur games the other day , u were brits on langres i cant remember who ur opponent was though ( u went bren and the british armored car instead of bofors ur opponent had double sniper and ostruppen doctrine)
U used ur bren so effectively that game shooting from behind hedges and so, if u can provide the replay i think would be very educational cuz ur oponent had good early game .
Cheers

Thanks. I tried something like this (the first 4 builds).

The brits I played did not play it defensively, though. Whenever my mg and one or two grens are located, that's where the UC flamer is instantly rushed forward - supported by 1 or two tommies. With good reason, because it works.

I think the tricky part is not the build order, but the how-to with grens. You see I can't get in range to faust fast enough because of the damned range of that flame. And the UC can just back off a bit if I try to close in.

You wouldn't happen to have a replay that shows this?

PS: the sniper is not as good an idea anylonger, now that the UC sniper detection has been improved.

What's the point of building a MG42 vs UKF? Not useful.
Flamer costs 90 mun. (min 4:30 - 5:00). Use your sniper to deal against Tommies! It costs 35 manpower to reinforce a soldier!

You have to wait for the exactly moment to faust it. If you dont lose manpower (playing with a Sniper is impossible in that situation) you will be able to develop a fast 222.

That's my main problem. I dont usually save my replays but anyway, I'll try!

OST Sniper can help you in the first minutes of the game. After 05:00 - 06:00 you need to wait if he uses a sniper and do your job."The biter bit" Here you have an example

Hey jesulin , i watched one of ur games the other day , u were brits on langres i cant remember who ur opponent was though ( u went bren and the british armored car instead of bofors ur opponent had double sniper and ostruppen doctrine)
U used ur bren so effectively that game shooting from behind hedges and so, if u can provide the replay i think would be very educational cuz ur oponent had good early game .
Cheers

Yes, I played against MajorOwnage. A decent player but like always, he insults..

I dont know how to play UFK because it is so difficult to deal with 2x Snipers and also Ostruppens. I dont have that replay too. Sorry! I'm a mess

What's the point of building a MG42 vs UKF? Not useful.

You have to wait for the exactly moment to faust it. If you dont lose manpower (playing with a Sniper is impossible in that situation) you will be able to develop a fast 222.

Here's a confession: Unfortunately my micro or attention span - whatever gets overloaded first - does not allow sniper as a safe tool. He usually pays for himself, but he also usually dies in the one second I'm not paying attention :/

Anyway, the MG's not useful?? Well, it's the only thing that can stop the tommies afaik. It doesn't kill any, but at least it supresses them. ANd that's when grens and pios can at last do some real paying back.

But I get your point, and in all fairness, I can say that I tried your build order out, and it does generally work out better.

However, fausting the BC still requires specially, beneficial circumstances. You sort of have to lure it into a trap where you can flank it. Even that takes time and will cost you the evaporation of a few grenadiers. It won't work against better players. In that case there's only the 222, but that measn you have no map control untill you have tech'ed and build that much....quite a long time.

I dislike it when a faction (of any kind) can have bring a unit on the field that dictates what the opponent has to do and does it for a long time. Just as it was previously with the Elite Tiger.

Btw.: Funny replay.Nothing beats the fuzzy feeling when you counter-snipe an opponent.

What's the point of building a MG42 vs UKF? Not useful.
Flamer costs 90 mun. (min 4:30 - 5:00). Use your sniper to deal against Tommies! It costs 35 manpower to reinforce a soldier!

You have to wait for the exactly moment to faust it. If you dont lose manpower (playing with a Sniper is impossible in that situation) you will be able to develop a fast 222.

That's my main problem. I dont usually save my replays but anyway, I'll try!

OST Sniper can help you in the first minutes of the game. After 05:00 - 06:00 you need to wait if he uses a sniper and do your job."The biter bit" Here you have an example



Yes, I played against MajorOwnage. A decent player but like always, he insults..

I dont know how to play UFK because it is so difficult to deal with 2x Snipers and also Ostruppens. I dont have that replay too. Sorry! I'm a mess

Actually i found ur build order that game very interesting , anw i saw the game live and i don't need the replay i just think it can be educational for ostheer players on how to deal with flame bren cuz u used it pretty good .
Thanks anw XD best of luck

3 to 4??? Are you serious? I'd be happy if I could get 1 in time.

The problem here is the flamer UC arrives first. I get pushed off map control if I don't have a counter at the same time.

And perhaps I should have specified that this is mainly a 1v1 problem. Hence teller mines are not really an option unless you want to go w/o lmg or shrek for a long time.

I'm not so worried about Bofors any more. It's this wrecking of the early game that is a problem.

1 counter UC , 2 counters AT gun 4 counters british AC. So when you have 4 a time brtis can only gg

XD these days 222s vet up so quickly