Centaur OP

The Centaur should kill all infantry that approaches it, and it does. I find no problems with it, if I use 2 Paks, at least one panzergrenadier with Schrecks, mines etc. Often the player with a Centaur becomes too aggressive when it sees the other player's troops retreat. I do not run into it, but let it run into my trap, and the Centaur can't escape, because it is too slow for that.

The Crocodile is worse, because it is almost impossible to destroy it, because of the high amount of hit points.

Centaur should kill all infantry that approaches it, and it does. I find no problems with it, if I use 2 paks, at least one panzergrenadier with Schrecks, mines etc. Often the player with a Centaur becomes too aggressive when it sees the other player's troops retreat. I do not run into it, but let it run into my trap, and the Centaur can't escape, because it is too slow for that.

The Crocodile is worse, because it is almost impossible to destroy it, because of the high amount of hit points.

While I do see your point, I cant completely agree. Look at previous balance changes that the community has asked for that relic saw fit to implement. They all aimed to lower crazy high kill rates, to a more forgiving level where the unit is still lethal but wont wipe everything around it like crazy. Changes to the StuG E, the ISU, Obers, various damage profiles of all sorts of tanks etc show pretty much what I mean here.

Its great when a unit does its job and it does it properly. At that point however you gotta ask yourself - does it do more than I asked of it? If it kills infantry, thats great. If it kills infantry reliably and fast, all the better. If it wipes a squad within 2 seconds, even if you retreat that squad - maybe, just maybe, its a tad bit over the top and needs to be brought in line.

While I do see your point, I cant completely agree. Look at previous balance changes that the community has asked for that relic saw fit to implement. They all aimed to lower crazy high kill rates, to a more forgiving level where the unit is still lethal but wont wipe everything around it like crazy. Changes to the StuG E, the ISU, Obers, various damage profiles of all sorts of tanks etc show pretty much what I mean here.

Its great when a unit does its job and it does it properly. At that point however you gotta ask yourself - does it do more than I asked of it? If it kills infantry, thats great. If it kills infantry reliably and fast, all the better. If it wipes a squad within 2 seconds, even if you retreat that squad - maybe, just maybe, its a tad bit over the top and needs to be brought in line.

In real life it is possible to kill a squad with a Russian PKM that runs into it in less than one second. Of course I find it annoying that the Centaur have killed my troops, but my opinion is that the people needs to adapt to it.

There is a mine bug and if Relic fix it, that could help to solve the problem with the Centaur. Yesterday I watched a game with VonIvan where the other player's Centaur evaded mines several times. If the mines would have functioned properly, there wouldn't have been a problem with the Centaur.

In real life, conscripts and grens wouldnt yolo charge at a tank to get a snare off. In real life, a single mg42 would probably be able to pin those 5 squads in place, even if they are all spaced out. In real life, you wouldnt see an ostwind every other engagement. You get my point...

What do we need to adapt to then? Its always easy for people to say adapt. How do I adapt to something wiping my squad, even as I retreat it as fast as humanly possible, the moment I realize "oh shit, its a centaur"? Should I just shrug it off and build a new gren squad? Should I just live without the squad I just lost? How do you adapt to something shredding your squads within moments at a time during the game when the only counter to said unit apparently gets hardcountered by the unit itself?

Placing mines is all nice and well and Im a huge fan of tellers cause most allied players, to this day, refuse to get sweepers until its too late. Problem is by the time a centaur arrives youll probably have 2 tellers or even only 1, depending on how many lmgs you got and how much munitions it cost you to get rid of that bren carrier. Relying on that one mine alone and placing all my AT around it is not a viable option, unless you can look into the future and know exactly what path your opponent is gonna take. But then you wouldnt need the AT in the first place cause youd always be able to avoid the fucker to begin with.

What else is there? I can try to faust him if I fancy losing yet another squad to the thing. Or maybe have 2 paks and set up an ambush. Problem is, in a close game you dont always have 640 manpower spare, especially so "early" during the game and if your opponent doesnt go wtih a centaur, youre pretty well screwed cause you just wasted a ton of resources on something thats of no use to you for the next 5-10 minutes and theres a good chance you might get overrun now.

CoH is a game of counterplay. You see a unit(or anticipate its arrival) and build the according counter. If the very thing Im trying to counter kills its only hard counter at the time and then runs wils and kills half my infantry force, this concept isnt really working - wouldnt you agree? This in return means that either the concept is utter shit or the unit may be broken in one way or another. If my P4 murdered your 6 pounder from the front and then went on and ohk'd half of your squads until you got a tank out or I hit a mine and you got another 6 pounder, you wouldnt necessarily think that its balanced or tell me that you need to adapt, would you now...

haha no. These OP threads are annoying please do cry more

+1

Its range is pathetic, get some AT.

In real life, conscripts and grens wouldnt yolo charge at a tank to get a snare off. In real life, a single mg42 would probably be able to pin those 5 squads in place, even if they are all spaced out. In real life, you wouldnt see an ostwind every other engagement. You get my point...

What do we need to adapt to then? Its always easy for people to say adapt. How do I adapt to something wiping my squad, even as I retreat it as fast as humanly possible, the moment I realize "oh shit, its a centaur"?

(1) In real life the Russian infantry just charged into fortified positions with MGs. That is a historical fact. Just see the facts and stats about Winter War (1939-1940) or see the Finnish movie Talvisota.

(2) I'm not a good player because I'm not so good in micro, so I can't evaluate the game balance from my experiences in gameplay. My opinion is that if a top notch player can solve the problem with Centaurs, then I can learn from him. I haven't seen that the Centaur alter the game extremely dramatically in a game with top notch players.

And my opinion is that the game developers could first fix all the bugs in the game, before they nerf/buff the Centaur or some other unit. As I said, I watched a game where the Centaur could evade German teller mines several times.

You have enough time to fuly prepare for it.

/thread

This thread is amusing because it's easy to spot people who bought the Brits and have no axis factions, and the people who have either one or both Axis factions but don't have the brits.

Highly amusing.

the centaur is buggy,for some reason it damages panzer 4s and actually threatens them.
other then that the centaur is ok

+1
Ostwind and Luchs are not even close at this...

Its range is pathetic, get some AT.

Range is pathetic if u play on open maps, otherwise its good.

It arrives too early imo (10-12 mins).

Range is pathetic if u play on open maps, otherwise its good.

It arrives too early imo (10-12 mins).

You are right, depends onn the map.

I dunno about the timings. But shouldnt an ostwind come out around the same time?

it can pen Pz4 rear armor ,confirmed. It is not that slow,sometimes it can even surround your basic medium tank and do alot of dmg. It should cost 120 fuel atleast.

And 222 can penetrate IS-2 frontally, confirmed as well. Does that make it effective against it to the point that mentioning it is in any way relevant?

And yes, it is slow, thing moves like heavy, no med tank in game is slower then it and if you got centaur on your rear, perhaps you should stop attacking with destroyed engine with rear armor to the opponent side as that is the only way to get it to situation you have described there.

the centaur is buggy,for some reason it damages panzer 4s and actually threatens them.
other then that the centaur is ok

Sure it does.
If you have 100 hp or less, damaged engine and exposed rear.

Otherwise its as much of a threat to P4 as Ostwind is a threat to T34.

Centaur definitely is powerful AI unit, but cut the utter bullshit please.

And 222 can penetrate IS-2 frontally, confirmed as well. Does that make it effective against it to the point that mentioning it is in any way relevant?

And yes, it is slow, thing moves like heavy, no med tank in game is slower then it and if you got centaur on your rear, perhaps you should stop attacking with destroyed engine with rear armor to the opponent side as that is the only way to get it to situation you have described there.



Sure it does.
If you have 100 hp or less, damaged engine and exposed rear.

Otherwise its as much of a threat to P4 as Ostwind is a threat to T34.

Centaur definitely is powerful AI unit, but cut the utter bullshit please.

no i am not kidding its either a bugg or something but i saw it penetrate the frontal armor of panzer 4s

no i am not kidding its either a bugg or something but i saw it penetrate the frontal armor of panzer 4s

Do you even know how penetration works?

Everything that have more then 3% to penetrate, will eventually penetrate.
The bigger RoF of the unit, the more often you'll see that.

Did you knew that MG42 incendiary rounds can penetrate T34 frontal armor?
That is a HEAVY MACHINE GUN PENETRATING TANK FRONTAL ARMOR THERE!

Even T-70 can penetrate King Tiger front armor.

And you think anything is wrong with 20mm polsten cannon doing it?

CoH2 is arcade RTS, you won't have realistic penetration values here, its working as intended.

Do you even know how penetration works?

Everything that have more then 3% to penetrate, will eventually penetrate.
The bigger RoF of the unit, the more often you'll see that.

Did you knew that MG42 incendiary rounds can penetrate T34 frontal armor?
That is a HEAVY MACHINE GUN PENETRATING TANK FRONTAL ARMOR THERE!

Even T-70 can penetrate King Tiger front armor.

And you think anything is wrong with 20mm polsten cannon doing it?

CoH2 is arcade RTS, you won't have realistic penetration values here, its working as intended.

lets just remove this completely cause it should be an AI tank(that can also fight light vehicles)

lets just remove this completely cause it should be an AI tank(that can also fight light vehicles)

Its not possible, because the game doesn't work that way, moreover if the pen was made so low that it wouldn't be able to pen tanks, you would see it BOUNCE on SCOUT CARS.

It arrives too early imo (10-12 mins) .

That's only possible if you pickup luftwaffe fuel supply drops.

Its not possible, because the game doesn't work that way, moreover if the pen was made so low that it wouldn't be able to pen tanks, you would see it BOUNCE on SCOUT CARS.

target tables?????????