LeFH damage buff at vet 1? (better against vehicles)

They both get cooldown reductions, and have the exact same cooldown. At vet 3 the cooldown of the ML-20 is exactly the same as the cooldown on the LeFH.

-15% scatter, +30% rotation speed, -25% barrage recharge

-15% scatter, -25% barrage recharge, +30% rotation speed

They both get cooldown reductions, and have the exact same cooldown. At vet 3 the cooldown of the ML-20 is exactly the same as the cooldown on the LeFH.

lefh cooldown begins at the start of the barage, ml20, after the barrage ends.

Once the barrage ends, cooldown ends.

anymore bullshit?

Why set it to private? And the argument here is that the LeFH doesn't have any real advantage over the ML-20. The thing you are currently "posting screens of" affects the ML-20 to the same extent. Again showing that the ML-20 is either the same in most stats or just straight up better in the case of damage.

Why you cannot hold even month without changing avatar/signature? It's irrelevant

I thought we were not comparing ML-20 to LeFH in that special case but vet 2 LeFH and vet 3 LeFH but since I proved vet 3 is more accurate you turned it into "it does not maater cause ML-20 is still better".

lefh cooldown begins at the start of the barage, ml20, after the barrage ends.

Someone in another Ml-20 thread stated that both cooldowns begin at start of the barrage.

That's also my observation.

Someone in another Ml-20 thread stated that both cooldowns begin at start of the barrage.

That's also my observation.

Holy sheet! i might be wrong about something!

Lemme check

lefh cooldown begins at the start of the barage, ml20, after the barrage ends.

Once the barrage ends, cooldown ends.

anymore bullshit?

This isn't true. They both have exactly the same cooldown.

To elaborate; the ML-20 doesn't show the counter ticking down while barraging, but after it's done it will show it and youll notice it was ticking down during the barrage. I had an LefH and a ML-20 barrage at exactly the same time and they both had the same cooldown left over after the barrage.

Why you cannot hold even month without changing avatar/signature? It's irrelevant

Playercard =/= Avatar and sig. Your a strategist, doesn't look good if you hide your playercard.

I thought we were not comparing ML-20 to LeFH in that special case but vet 2 LeFH and vet 3 LeFH but since I proved vet 3 is more accurate you turned it into "it does not maater cause ML-20 is still better".

The Vet 3 isn't more accurate, the scatter is exactly the same. It's just that the degree to which it scatters is smaller. IE when you miss you miss by a smaller amount. And the overall topic of the thread is the ML-20 out preforming the LeFH, which is 100% true.

All howis (and other arty) which gains range automatically becomes more accurate. This is because angle scatter (left-right scatter) is a fixed angle by which shots can deviate at MAX DISTANCE. As distance decreases; the angle scatter also decreases; decreasing the distance shots can scatter (so more accurate). Same principle applies to the axial scatter (how much over/under the shot lands from center).

Thats why howitzers (and mortars and rocket arty) get more accurate barrages at vet3. (And why tanks etc shoot more accurately at infantry when you're close to them and less accurately at max range)

Okay lets get some actual facts in here:

-The counter-barrage only fires 6 shells, like it the main gun did pre-patch.

-On average it took all 6 shells to kill the Katyusha, 3 times (each a separate counter barrage) I had it hit but not kill it. Out of the 20 times I tested it the Katyusha never died on the first shell meaning the player could move to save the Katyusha

-The counter-barrage has the exact same AoE profile as the basic gun, meaning that only on direct hits will the 200 damage actually count.

-The ML-20 and LeFH will always have the same cooldown at equal levels of vet meaning that you don't have an instant cooldown on either at Vet 3, just a short one (because it will be ticking down during the barrage)

-The counter-barrage seems to prefer things closer like mortar, rather than far away howitzers. It also doesn't get any of the bonus's allied from vet meaning it has a longer cooldown and fires less shells. It's also less accurate.

-Out of 20 counter barrages against 120's and 82's it only killed the crew (not the gun) 7 times. And never on the first 2 shells.

-In a 1 on 1 artillery duel the ML-20 at vet 0 wins 71% of the time, at Vet 3 it wins 83% percent of the time. This was tested over 20 duels with both shooting at each at exactly the same time with equal veterancy levels.

The Vet 3 isn't more accurate...

All howis (and other arty) which gains range automatically becomes more accurate. This is because angle scatter (left-right scatter) is a fixed angle by which shots can deviate at MAX DISTANCE. As distance decreases; the angle scatter also decreases; decreasing the distance shots can scatter (so more accurate). Same principle applies to the axial scatter (how much over/under the shot lands from center).

Thats why howitzers (and mortars and rocket arty) get more accurate barrages at vet3. (And why tanks etc shoot more accurately at infantry when you're close to them and less accurately at max range)

It's not getting reduced scatter from Vet 2. It's more accurate because it has longer range.

It's not getting reduced scatter from Vet 2. It's more accurate because it has longer range.

Why would it not get reduced scatter from vet 2? It would be a modifier on the unit and should persist when the unit switches to the vet 3 gun.

Why would it not get reduced scatter from vet 2? It would be a modifier on the unit and should persist when the unit switches to the vet 3 gun.

All the stats in the game files show no reduced scatter from vet 2 to vet 3. And veterancy is directly applied to the gun, not the "unit". There is a trigger for when the weapon crew dies the gun loses the stats it gets from vet, but a lot of units don't have that because ~Relic~. For instance the OKW Pak43's gun retains vet bonus's even after it's decrewed and you can stack new vet on top of it.

All the stats in the game files show no reduced scatter from vet 2 to vet 3. And veterancy is directly applied to the gun, not the "unit". There is a trigger for when the weapon crew dies the gun loses the stats it gets from vet, but a lot of units don't have that because ~Relic~. For instance the OKW Pak43's gun retains vet bonus's even after it's decrewed and you can stack new vet on top of it.

So when the gun is swapped out for the vet 3 version the vet 2 bonus applied to the default gun is not reapplied (or accounted for in the gun stats)?

And here I thought removing the auto fire bonus from the pack vet 2 wasn't symptomatic of a larger problem >.>.

So when the gun is swapped out for the vet 3 version the vet 2 bonus applied to the default gun is not reapplied (or accounted for in the gun stats)?

And here I thought removing the auto fire bonus from the pack vet 2 wasn't symptomatic of a larger problem >.>.

Yeah, it's to reapplied. I checked every stat I could and couldn't find a single -15% reduction in scatter at vet 3. The only thing that is different is that it has longer range.

I checked every weapon profile of the LeFh. Not a single profile had different scatter values.

It might be possible that the vet bonus applies but it's simply not shown in the weapon profile.

Just like infantry rifles get accuracy from vet although there is only one weapon profile.

Guys, stop arguing, ML-20 is just a LeFH on steroid, end of the story

Guys, stop arguing, ML-20 is just a LeFH on steroid, end of the story

Explain how this is bad

Explain how this is bad

Explain where i said this was bad

Explain where i said this was bad

Context are your word choice

Context are your word choice

Context is your interpretation, which i do not care about