Stug G vs. Soviet and Allied armor

Well I'm sorry, but the way discution went I was sure that it was about TWP being OP on Stugs only. For packs I believe it's even worst, for they cannot defend themselves not even from what they are supposed to counter anymore, due to latest nerfs from 2 patches ago. But this I guess we can say about ZIs also, though ZIS is slightly more advantaged due to bigger crew.

Anyway, it's clear for me now that we cannot agree related to TWP and that's ok.

Paks can't kill tanks? Wut? They are the best AT guns in game.

I guess that's why people can use CAS so efficiently without vehicles.

I'm not even sure what you are saying.

Paks can't kill tanks? Wut? They are the best AT guns in game.

I guess that's why people can use CAS so efficiently without vehicles.

I'm not even sure what you are saying.

I'm saying PAks and Stugs need TWP, that is what I am saying. Allied vehicles - like all Allied units, infantry or tanks, are fast, specialised in flancking and close up engagements. I am sure you "danced" with your shermanns and / or T34s around Paks decrewing them before, didn't you? In the past, due to faster reload speed, a PAK may have scored 2 hits into a tank that was closing in. Now most of times, it scores but one which usualy means around 25% of its health. You know all these, I am not reinventing the will, why do you pretend you don't understand?!

I'm saying PAks and Stugs need TWP, that is what I am saying. Allied vehicles - like all Allied units, infantry or tanks, are fast, specialised in flancking and close up engagements. I am sure you "danced" with your shermanns and / or T34s around Paks decrewing them before, didn't you? In the past, due to faster reload speed, a PAK may have scored 2 hits into a tank that was closing in. Now most of times, it scores but one which usualy means around 25% of its health. You know all these, I am not reinventing the will, why do you pretend you don't understand?!

I'm not quite sure what's your point... If Luchs/Ostwind/Pz4 is dancing around ZiSes and decrewing them, does it mean ZiS should get TWP as well?

I'm not quite sure what's your point... If Luchs/Ostwind/Pz4 is dancing around ZiSes and decrewing them, does it mean ZiS should get TWP as well?

No, but it has other abilities that compensate. Tracking, light artillery barage. I thought everybody agreed that having different abilities it's ok and we love diversity. If you remove TWP from axis antitanc units, what they will have then? Nothing?! They cost resources, as all units in this game do, and they need to have special abilities too. Special abilities that are useful. Every ability on soviet TD or AT guns is useful. You guys wanna remove TWP and replace it with something totaly useless? Well, I don't think it would be fair, that's all.

No, but it has other abilities that compensate. Tracking, light artillery barage. I thought everybody agreed that having different abilities it's ok and we love diversity. If you remove TWP from axis antitanc units, what they will have then? Nothing?! They cost resources, as all units in this game do, and they need to have special abilities too. Special abilities that are useful. Every ability on soviet TD or AT guns is useful. You guys wanna remove TWP and replace it with something totaly useless? Well, I don't think it would be fair, that's all.

Noone is saying that removing and replacing with a shit abilty is fine. You are seeing ghosts where there are none. I'm not some fanboy, who just wants to nerf OST, I play all factions and enjoy myself (except with soviets, seriously, fuck them).

Yet, at the same time, all soviet AT has "tracking" for vet1, which shows infantry on the minimap, and doesn't increase sight range. According to you, that is useful, therfore:

TWP can easily be replaced by an ability that increases utility without directly influencing combat to such an extent. Like maybe defensive grenade, armor piercing round, or aimed shot like the puma has. Hell, according to you tracking is useful, so you can have something that increases vehicle detection on minimap (like infantry awareness).

TWP simply gives you too much power that multiplies with the strength of the unit using it, and as I have shown before, HAS NO COUNTERPLAY.

Also, in terms of allies being faster, you do realize that you have the p4, right? It's only .2 slower than a t34/76, and has a much faster reload rate, so shouldn't the ZIs need TWP more than the pak due to its horrendous ROF? Axis armor also has blitz to help flank, while soviet tanks have secure mode.

Do you play the same game we do?

I'm saying PAks and Stugs need TWP, that is what I am saying. Allied vehicles - like all Allied units, infantry or tanks, are fast, specialised in flancking and close up engagements. I am sure you "danced" with your shermanns and / or T34s around Paks decrewing them before, didn't you? In the past, due to faster reload speed, a PAK may have scored 2 hits into a tank that was closing in. Now most of times, it scores but one which usualy means around 25% of its health. You know all these, I am not reinventing the will, why do you pretend you don't understand?!

This is incorrect. The differences in top speed between a sherman/t34 and p4/ostwind are negligible at best at 0.2. The panther's top speed is 0.1 (negligible, as noted) faster. Allied tanks are no better at flanking than axis tanks. If anything axis tanks are more effective flankers with the use of blitz.