Can't stand ground against allies

Hello guys, I am desperate.

As you can see in my player card I am on a -20 streak atm and that is mostly because I played the last 15 games against Guard Motor / Elite Rifle only.

What can I do against them as Ost? I always use green cover, a viable army with 4 grens and a MG but does damn rifles push me off the edge all the time. The enemy can get 2 Rifles while my first Gren appears.
So it's 10 vetted Rifle models against 4 sucky Grens. Even with 2 Gren squads there is nothing I can do.
And when I have an army that can somehow handle the > 5 rifles, the Stuart / M20 arrives and usually then I have only 1 or 2 sectors left which means gg.

No, I DO NOT own OP cheese commanders such as Mechanized Assault or Elite Troops.
I usually play spearhead and sometimes CAS.

This game is currently absolutely no fun for me. I took a 2 week break to "calm down" only to see that I'm getting salty playing against the same bullshit again and again.

same here

i just cant win with germans these days

Wait till June 23

Well, happy to see you broke that losing streak. Anyway, a reply would help. I'm no pro, but I have some time to spare today so I can give it a look.

Usually a longer t1 is supposed to be the way to go against USF, but I'm sure you already konw that. Against Guard Motor, don't really know. It's really hard in the current state of the game, to be honest.

Good luck!

Play OKW Kappa

Festung armor is a great choice against those two commander since they dont have a off map artillery to counter the pak43

Hello guys, I am desperate.

As you can see in my player card I am on a -20 streak atm and that is mostly because I played the last 15 games against Guard Motor / Elite Rifle only.

What can I do against them as Ost? I always use green cover, a viable army with 4 grens and a MG but does damn rifles push me off the edge all the time. The enemy can get 2 Rifles while my first Gren appears.
So it's 10 vetted Rifle models against 4 sucky Grens. Even with 2 Gren squads there is nothing I can do.
And when I have an army that can somehow handle the > 5 rifles, the Stuart / M20 arrives and usually then I have only 1 or 2 sectors left which means gg.

No, I DO NOT own OP cheese commanders such as Mechanized Assault or Elite Troops.
I usually play spearhead and sometimes CAS.

This game is currently absolutely no fun for me. I took a 2 week break to "calm down" only to see that I'm getting salty playing against the same bullshit again and again.

- This might help with the saltyness.

Guard motor... Yeah just wait till June 23.. You're totally at mercy of soviet player whether he wants you to win or not. Just ALTF4 at loading screen

VS USF, TRY to veto maps that make you feel cramped (gleize,semoiskiys,and Stalingrad)
Get 3x Mine bulletins,

And then instead of 4x grenadiers and MG(which is hard countered by just as many rifles into LT as you're figurin out)

Do 2 grens, 1 MG, sniper, tech, place teller, build another gren or a mortar, retreat pio after placing mine, and then buildT2.

If M20 comes then go 222, if there's a long delay, go 251 half track then Pak because there will be AAHT
From there honestly there is no special formula, just play better than them,and try to limit impact of light vehicle.. If you can do that and then do the same when first Sherman arrives you should be good.

You can then pick mobile defense,spam ostruppen(which is effective against MP bleeding USF) and just skip T3 and play with Pumas and Command tanks which are actually somewhat OP against USF.

I am more scared of that AA halftrack than a Stuart. Stuart you can faust, that AA halftrack, no

If your map is very urban then occupy buildings, this will force the USF player to tech grenades or be stuck fighting a slow battle. So you delay his AA halftrack or Stuart.

A sniper works for me all the time. Zhe manpower drainage is real!

A sniper is one of the most game changing units early, but they are tricky to get the most out of :/

Paks are so good at AT, Ive been leaning towards getting vehicles for AI backed by paks, this works best with either command tank with scopes or Ostwinds with scopes.

The normally rampant allied inf is shut down by these AI tanks, and if they try to bring tanks up, have the paks handy or even in front of your spotting scoped armour to see them off. Then if the enemy goes for AT guns, try to counter with grens, and if he trys to out armour you, get more paks/P4s, or even an elifant.


I think Werh's early AT is pretty disgusting in the face of M3 spam or M20s.


You could always just abuse allies for the next few weeks, theres plenty of people searching as axis.

Might help you this kind of build :
depends on map mostly but
1xsniper first two grens 1x mg....USF->pak/scoutcar....SOVIET->one more gren

Try to play slow always keep grens with sniper to faust if needed

that is early game it depens from game to game but basically you want to get 3 or more grens
1 or 2 mg
sniper if you can keep him alive is very useful and in mid/late game you can put him on hold fire for scouting if you feel very overhelm by microing everything.

you can build one cache or more it is up to you.

mid/late game
it is tricky I usually go p4s with scope and paks

p4 will drain his manpower and with scope you can send paks to kill tanks.

land mine on roads when you think he might go or on your flanks.



late late game you want to have 2 p4 or command tankp4 and get some panthers

Hello guys, I am desperate.

No, I DO NOT own OP cheese commanders such as Mechanized Assault or Elite Troops.
I usually play spearhead and sometimes CAS.

This might be the problem. You give your opponent and instant edge by being to cool to use these "OP COMMANDERS" Meh not getting lucky in them drops ey

If my opponent will use the OP Soviet Kingtiger (IS2) I will use Tiger Ace. If my opponent use vet2 riflemen from 1min I will use STUGGGIES. No problem.

Hello guys, I am desperate.

As you can see in my player card I am on a -20 streak atm and that is mostly because I played the last 15 games against Guard Motor / Elite Rifle only.

What can I do against them as Ost? I always use green cover, a viable army with 4 grens and a MG but does damn rifles push me off the edge all the time. The enemy can get 2 Rifles while my first Gren appears.
So it's 10 vetted Rifle models against 4 sucky Grens. Even with 2 Gren squads there is nothing I can do.
And when I have an army that can somehow handle the > 5 rifles, the Stuart / M20 arrives and usually then I have only 1 or 2 sectors left which means gg.

No, I DO NOT own OP cheese commanders such as Mechanized Assault or Elite Troops.
I usually play spearhead and sometimes CAS.

This game is currently absolutely no fun for me. I took a 2 week break to "calm down" only to see that I'm getting salty playing against the same bullshit again and again.

Do you have CAS doctrine? For now you have to wait untill June 23rd with all the pain, but there are methods of fighting the cheese with some cheese of your own.

If you do own CAS, the following helps enormously:

- start with 3 grens
- get one mg and park it on a fuel
- get t2 as soon as possible
- trade fuel for muni
- get lmgs on your grens
- get a 221 if needed (for flamer clown cheese)
- get panzergrenadiers
- keep trading fuel for muni
- get panzergrenadier shreck blob
- rape anything you come across, with either bundled nade spam, or rifle nade spam
- save some fuel for p4 or panther

Now by this time he will go either t70 or if he is stupid a t34-76. Now if he has a brain, he will go katty, which puts him back in fuel a lot, since he needs t4. Gives you a lot of time to get panther and you just simply trade some fuel first, do some nice recon run AND STRAFE THE SHIT OUT OF THAT KATTY.

Block the horrible spam of guards or shocks with strafing runs.

you can go call in and try your luck with that, yet Tiger... mehh...

I have stopped my Wehr losing streak by this, even being called out for cheesy spammer by soviet guard motor spam.

As for Rifle spam, I can't do shit against that either than just the same strat that redwings uses combined with CAS:

-2 pios
- fuel cache, cap one fuel point
- t2
- panzergrenadiers
- 221
- t3
- p4

good luck xd

Thank you all for your great answers!
Somehow calming that it's not only me struggling to play against these commanders.

The proposed build orders sound interesting, also Festung support.
I will try them and then provide my feedback

This might be the problem. You give your opponent and instant edge by being to cool to use these "OP COMMANDERS" Meh not getting lucky in them drops ey

If my opponent will use the OP Soviet Kingtiger (IS2) I will use Tiger Ace. If my opponent use vet2 riflemen from 1min I will use STUGGGIES. No problem.

The problem is not that I don't use them (I also use CAS ) but that I simply don't own them :/

Wait till June 23

Whats on june 23rd?

Whats on june 23rd?

Release of the new patch.

I've had this problem recently too. I used to play OKW a lot, but recently have been play Wehr when using Axis and they are really fun.
Recently though I've been on quite a losing streak with them against the US in particular. I just find their infantry pushes me away and I have a hard time getting back in the game.

I do go for a sniper, but they usually have an M20 out by then which chases it away, and I have lots of trouble fighting it off with T1 units. Faust works, but they seem to get away or chase me away with their own infantry and then quickly repair it.

Teller mines more often? Go for more MGs than just one?
I think last time i just went 3x Grens into Sniper, but he had the houses and I couldn't displace him fast enough.

I figure in hindsight I should have run away and taken other points instead of fighting him in the house.

Well since you have CAS and Spearhead I would probably take CAS over spearhead 8/10. It allows you to afford lmgs, tellers, and quick at/anti-inf strafe at a moments notice. Only problem is figuring out when to use them/know if you want to tech up or not. Usually sticking with just t1 and t2 is your best bet. Only problem is the fact that you wont have any armor on the field to work with really. However, you will have a large inf based army that should be able to take on any type of enemy inf-spam with ease. Use the strafe to pin enemy blobs trying to flank/overwhelm you. If you're vs a Soviet player get at least 2 paks and 1-2 shrek squads and lay down 2-3 tellers. If vs USF simply get 1 pak out and 1-2 shrek squads, and lay down 2-3 tellers. Rest of your army should consist of 4-6 grens with at least half equipped with lmgs, 2 mgs, 1 mortar, and a hf(optional). Get at least 1 muni cache up(preferably on cutoff) to help maximize ammo intake, prioritize at least half of the map which is most open/easier to defend and branch out from there easily, leave one mg on the side of the map where you are branching out of whenever possible. Once heavy armor hits the field concentrate on taking it out by baiting it into a pak wall with shreks and then using the at strafe from behind to bring it down to 20-30% health instantly(angle the plane to come from behind the vehicle as it usually will be micro'd backwards). Eventually you will bleed your opponent out mp wise pretty easily and take the whole map/win. With Spearhead just do everything above but get a mortar hf out instead of a mortar and save fuel to spam dbl Tigerz and pew pew pew your way to victory.

Play allies yourself and its easier learning how to beat them. In general USF have no good counter to lmg spam with CAS, mortar, snipers, at wall, tiger ace and stug E.

Early game good sniper play will win the manpower war and use its vet1 ability to mp bleed blobs. But need lots of grens to protect it. Safe early build is either grens + sniper or grens + mgs. Trying to do both and a quick m20 can make a big mess.

VS m20, until you have a counter learn to stall it with grens. Once you faust it make sure to follow it with at least one gren squad (stay at long range or behind shot blocker) so it cant repair easily. Every once in a while the USF player dont see the gren squad following it and think its safe to repair. Thats a perfect opportunity to steal it with a rifle grenade on the m20 crew.

If you dont stall the M20, it will just repair easily and bleed you for munitions, kill your sniper or force it to retreat.