Review appreciated!

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  White Phosphorus TopCunt ARIBBORN INCOMING 3...2...1... Teme

  darkness TheBlueDivision GoldEmp1re kingG4ndalf71

  Axis Junkyard

  by: aribborn map: Steppes

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Jump back to quoted post18 May 2015, 04:55 AMturbotortoise

It'd be my pleasure to review this. I'll have it to you by the morning.

Hello, and welcome to the site

Jump back to quoted post18 May 2015, 21:31 PMturbotortoise

Alright, so. Thanks for sharing! I’ll just say before I begin that 4v4’s give a really poor sample of play and make things difficult to breakdown. There are just so many factors involved it can be difficult to really draw any causality, and organized teams that work together towards a strategy will immediately have a leg up on 4 players cobbled together.

Firstly, personally I like to veto Steppes for exactly the reasons you ran into after around 17 minutes. The Allies can really get bogged down as the frontlines get drawn out, and eventually choked out by a defensively oriented Axis team, but you guys did well to avoid that situation by pressuring the north and pressuring both flanks around the center.

I found your opening was… risky. The 3 Maxims can really be a liability if you lose your handle on them early and they really lose equity as the axis grow into the game, but you did well, only getting outflanked once, and you were always able to repulse the axis pushes with the help of your team mate just before you hit the breaking point. Well done.

I especially liked how you counter attacked after the engagements calmed down, took advantage of their overextension, took the fuel, and held it down, especially your use of mines and demos, that showed good wherewithal to dig in.

Here though, I think you need to make some adjustments. Firstly in build: although your build synergized well with your USF teammate and fit your position on the map. I think you need to think a little bit further ahead, the 2 82mm’s you requisitioned were fairly ineffective, and a 120mm would likely’ve paid more dividends. I would have also liked to have seen an ATG. With some cooperation with your team mate, you could have in all likelihood ended this game at before 12 minutes by taking down the Battlegrouppe HQ across from you, and if that failed, you would still have the gun ready in case you are repelled and needed to dig in, in preparation of Axis armor. Secondly, when you decide to consolidate, make sure to pay attention to your firing lanes on your machine guns, when the axis did counter attack, they really caught you off guard and were able to slice through your defense because of the holes. This rout was also exacerbated because you had sort of half-heartedly committed to holding a bit of an offensive corridor on the island. I would recommend, especially in large team games, to learn the maps and commit your entire forces and effort to your portion of the map, unless of course you are a team and can effectively organize and coordinate your forces.

I would like to take a moment to go back over your build because you mentioned, “I failed to be effective with my infantry” and this was simply because you didn’t have any. I liked your defensive oriented play, I think it would have been best to stick with what was working for you. By calling in your guards squads you ended up being stuck in a situation where, although you have a combined army it ended up being a bleed on your attention, manpower and was not specialized enough to be entirely effective AND, the worst of it all was, it hamstrung your main fighting force, the tour de force of your army, the T34/85’s until 34minutes, which could have really been a death sentence, at 34minutes, you need to have multiples of them, not be merely thinking about calling in your best units.

Otherwise, the game got very stale and bogged down in the late game. I suppose you had some options: shifting to the island, perhaps getting a spotting unit and creeping forward to their position across the fuel, but given the build you utilized and how the game grew, staying put and trading blow for blow was probably your best choice, and the game played out from there.

So really, I mean, you were entirely sound, I would just focus a little more on thinking about how you want to play, sticking to that, and streamlining your build to focus on your strengths instead of dabbling all over the place, and as well, this helps you from making a few micro mistakes, like your strange mortar push and losing a few squads here and there. Pretty unavoidable as the game goes on and exhaustion sets in, but still, these mistakes can be limited by coming in with a sound strategy, focus and sticking to it.

I’m sorry this review wasn’t more comprehensive, but again, it’s very hard to suss out an individuals impact in a large team game like this. I hope you found what little I was able to provide helpful, and if there’s any way I could improve my feedback, please don’t hesitate to tell me!

Jump back to quoted post19 May 2015, 02:43 AMaribborn

Hey turbotortoise,

Thanks for your review, I appreciate it. 3 MG opening is not my usual opening but in Lienne Forest (City Side) and Steppes I feel forced to use that, especially when I play with USF teammates. I usually go for penals which combined with shocks or guards become effective. But since this map is open I went with mgs to pin blobs down.

Now the problem is, I could never get around to build a ZIS gun since we failed to push the island and as you said, we failed to push through mid as well. My question to you for this game is, would we still be able to hold the line with only penals+guards+120 mm mortar+ SU85 and T34/85 (which is my usual build) ? What would you suggest then?

Thanks!

Jump back to quoted post19 May 2015, 02:58 AMturbotortoise

Yeah, the maxims make more sense when you can garrison them, provided they don't bug out. xD

I feel you did more than enough on the fuel point. That assault after you placed your death trap was hardly a failed attempt. Your team got the HQ down to a third of its health IIRC. So, my point was, with a ZiS gun, you could have got it in range, let your teammates rifles and your support weapons cover it, and take down the truck. That would have been a huge blow for your opponents. It really pays to take full advantage of opportunities like that.

Personally, I'm always taking scripts over penals but, 5 squads/6 squads. 4 scripts + w.e else, shocks, guards w.e is usually more than enough if you want to forgo weapons teams. You could even (and I'd recommend it) try to intergrate a few weapons teams to have a more well rounded force. 4 scripts, maxim/120mm, 2 squads of w.e other infantry you like.

When you think about your build, work back from the unit you most want at the end, ie 34/85's and how many minutes of fuel it will take to get there. A good streamlined build, if all goes according to plan @50% map, could have them arrive at 17 minutes. I like a little more flexibility in either a T70 or if I'm playing more defensively an Su85 + Katyusha. which would delay my call in immensely: around 6 minutes, or 12 minutes respectably. Bearing in mind that an equally streamlined axis build will see heavy armor arrive around 17 minutes as well.

Jump back to quoted post19 May 2015, 03:47 AMaribborn

My only problem with conscripts is that their attack damage is not all that good until they get vet3. Penals on the other hand bring in about 2x attack force + flame damage.

Only at close range. The versatility of the script squad trumps any benefit given from the SVT imo.

The reason why I use guards here is to make sure I have some proper AT until I get my tanks out and since I got no Zis gun when I go T1.

This is also fundamentally why I don't bother with T1, unless it's a 1v1 and I plan to use snipers.

It's a toss up, guards and shocks either or are very powerful and utilized correctly, you'll be in good shape. Just whichever you prefer, bearing in mind if you run up on a 221/2 or a 250/7 you'll probablllyyy want guards


An alternative strategy would be to go for T1, and then T2 for Zis until you get your heavies, totally skipping T3 and 4. How do you deal with PIV when you only go for 4 conscripts+2 shocks?

Not my speed. PiV's don't bother me in the slightest, 1 ZiS is more than enough to deal with it effectively, and even without, AT nades will make it think twice about diving in on you. Even guards on the flank and it's had it.


My basic build I use for 1's and 4's is:
- 4 scripts.
- atnades.
- elite infantry squad or weapons team.
- Zis Gun.
- t70.
- is2 or 34/85's.
- supplement elite infantry as necessary.