If the cost of the LT tech and Capt tech is reduced according to the value of the unit sure. Or the tech side costs for Nades, BAR and Zook are part of the teching cost like Ost sure.
Value of Nades, BAR and Zook is 375MP and 55 Fuel. So Ost gets a free 375MP and 55FUEL! OP! The big problem seems to be the timing of the LT more then his relative power. He isnt as good as an LMG Gren after all.
Remove free lieutenant
30 Apr 2015, 15:05 PM
#41
Posts: 1637
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
30 Apr 2015, 15:22 PM
#42
Posts: 612
Problem is that for their asymmetrical design, Relic decided asymmetrical means as different as possible to make things cool and ridiculously hard to balance.
I do like the 65 fuel for both the captain and the Lieutenant note though. I personally do not have a problem with unlocking an advantage with tech, I just wished it was for all factions and not just with the WFA (and I guess Ostheer technically gets rifle nades with tech, so really Soviets just got shit outta luck
)
I do like the 65 fuel for both the captain and the Lieutenant note though. I personally do not have a problem with unlocking an advantage with tech, I just wished it was for all factions and not just with the WFA (and I guess Ostheer technically gets rifle nades with tech, so really Soviets just got shit outta luck
)
30 Apr 2015, 15:29 PM
#43
Posts: 1637
Problem is that for their asymmetrical design, Relic decided asymmetrical means as different as possible to make things cool and ridiculously hard to balance.
I do like the 65 fuel for both the captain and the Lieutenant note though. I personally do not have a problem with unlocking an advantage with tech, I just wished it was for all factions and not just with the WFA (and I guess Ostheer technically gets rifle nades with tech, so really Soviets just got shit outta luck
Riflenades, LMG unlock, Pfaust, Shrek. All part of teching for Ostheer. Yes Soviets are just boned.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
30 Apr 2015, 15:36 PM
#44
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Oh yes, can't wait for a T1 100mp 10/20 fuel and super faster M20/halftrack push!! If your remove the lieutnant/captain, you also remove its cost
No, you keep the cost the same and make you pay a price worthy of getting a BAR squad or a Zook squad. The issue is getting to much free shit with teching, thus is makes sense to allow tech to be acquired but you need to pay extra to get the bonus's from them.
Riflenades, LMG unlock, Pfaust, Shrek. All part of teching for Ostheer. Yes Soviets are just boned.
Teching isn't an issue for Soviets due to the power of call in's. Why tech when you don't need to?
30 Apr 2015, 15:40 PM
#45
Posts: 1637
No, you keep the cost the same and make you pay a price worthy of getting a BAR squad or a Zook squad. The issue is getting to much free shit with teching, thus is makes sense to allow tech to be acquired but you need to pay extra to get the bonus's from them.
Teching isn't an issue for Soviets due to the power of call in's. Why tech when you don't need to?
Which has created a MESS called the Call in Meta that should be addressed IMHO.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
30 Apr 2015, 15:48 PM
#46
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Which has created a MESS called the Call in Meta that should be addressed IMHO.
The march deployment (not this recent one) created call in meta by making Soviet call in's way more efficient and attractive than stock options. Honestly it would be much less dumb/op/broken if call in's were tied to teching for Soviets.
30 Apr 2015, 16:19 PM
#47
Posts: 612
No, you keep the cost the same and make you pay a price worthy of getting a BAR squad or a Zook squad. The issue is getting to much free shit with teching, thus is makes sense to allow tech to be acquired but you need to pay extra to get the bonus's from them.
Teching isn't an issue for Soviets due to the power of call in's. Why tech when you don't need to?
It is an issue because Call in meta is more than likely going to be addressed. It at this point is a universal known fact that people want changed, and when that happens there will be quite a few issues with Soviets.
This is exactly like how a few of us predicted OKW being overwhelming when they balanced out USF and adjusted the income of OKW. They didnt really have problems, it was just other faction issues and when they were sorted out the result was a not under powered faction being OP.
It will be the opposite in this case when Call in meta is addressed. OKW and USF will benefit the most, Ostheer stock stuff is great so no big deal, Soviets will get the shaft.
30 Apr 2015, 16:35 PM
#48
Posts: 1702
It is an issue because Call in meta is more than likely going to be addressed. It at this point is a universal known fact that people want changed, and when that happens there will be quite a few issues with Soviets.
This is exactly like how a few of us predicted OKW being overwhelming when they balanced out USF and adjusted the income of OKW. They didnt really have problems, it was just other faction issues and when they were sorted out the result was a not under powered faction being OP.
It will be the opposite in this case when Call in meta is addressed. OKW and USF will benefit the most, Ostheer stock stuff is great so no big deal, Soviets will get the shaft.
Do you have a credible source to back up your statement? Dont tell me the specifics if you are in alpha and under NDA, just tell me that if the call in meta is going to get fixed soon.
Because i remember very well PQ stating like 6 months ago is that they do not want to attach call ins to tech because they understand how heavily soviets depend on their call ins.
Anyways, attaching call ins to tech is not the way to go. All it would mean is that you now get a T3 building before your call in. Late game would still be dominated by call in tanks for sov/ost and esp for soviets because their non doc vehicles are pretty bad in the long run.
30 Apr 2015, 16:45 PM
#49
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Making teching a requirement for all call in's, not just Soviet ones would help extend the game out a little bit and make Axis heavies like the Tiger and Jadgtiger/Elefant require more investment just like the Soviet call in's would.
The assumption that call in meta is only a problem with Allies ignores the fact that if call in's were tied to tech then having to get T4 would delay the Tiger a lot.
Soviets wouldn't have an issues because they wouldn't have to fight enemy call in's either, fighting Ost stock units with Soviets stock units isn't that hard at all, and USF and OKW stock units are great making it easy for them to hold out.
The assumption that call in meta is only a problem with Allies ignores the fact that if call in's were tied to tech then having to get T4 would delay the Tiger a lot.
Soviets wouldn't have an issues because they wouldn't have to fight enemy call in's either, fighting Ost stock units with Soviets stock units isn't that hard at all, and USF and OKW stock units are great making it easy for them to hold out.
30 Apr 2015, 16:47 PM
#50
Posts: 612
Do you have a credible source to back up your statement? Dont tell me the specifics if you are in alpha and under NDA, just tell me that if the call in meta is going to get fixed soon.
Because i remember very well PQ stating like 6 months ago is that they do not want to attach call ins to tech because they understand how heavily soviets depend on their call ins.
Anyways, attaching call ins to tech is not the way to go. All it would mean is that you now get a T3 building before your call in. Late game would still be dominated by call in tanks for sov/ost and esp for soviets because their non doc vehicles are pretty bad in the long run.
They dont have to attach call ins to tech (which they probably wont). there are other smaller changes they can do to decrease the call in meta effectiveness such as further delay, stat changes, and cost modifications (for stock and call in units, these are not exclusive changes)
30 Apr 2015, 18:05 PM
#51
Posts: 1484
Call ins will not be addressed in COH2, Soviets are way too reliant on them. Relic themselves said they would need to re haul the entire Soviet army if they were to eliminate the Call ins.
Re haul = Shock/Guards stock units + T-34/85s and IS2/ISU stocks.
Re haul = Shock/Guards stock units + T-34/85s and IS2/ISU stocks.
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30 Apr 2015, 18:50 PM
#52
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
Would like to see the LT pushed back by adjusting its cost.
Edit: Not sure this will fix it. They'll just build another riflemen group before the LT.
Edit: Not sure this will fix it. They'll just build another riflemen group before the LT.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
30 Apr 2015, 19:14 PM
#53
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Would like to see the LT pushed back by adjusting its cost.
Edit: Not sure this will fix it. They'll just build another riflemen group before the LT.
Well, that could at least fix M20 rushing. It's definitely a bit much.
30 Apr 2015, 19:55 PM
#54
Posts: 1484
Well, that could at least fix M20 rushing. It's definitely a bit much.
Whats wrong with M20 rush now? Scout car got a nice buff, combine it with Panzer Faust.
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1 May 2015, 08:58 AM
#55
Posts: 1705
Whats wrong with M20 rush now? Scout car got a nice buff, combine it with Panzer Faust.
Comes way too fast.Puts immense pressure for teching and spending more MP while rifles have qualitative superiority and add to that get free lieutenant to get automatic numerical advantage....how relic gives a unit that is roughly equivalent to 1.5-1.75 unupgraded grenadiers for free is beyond me...complete early game breaker .
1 May 2015, 09:17 AM
#56
8 Posts: 2470
i don't want USF tech pushed back very much because as much of a balance problem as it is now for OKH, it fucking boring to play USF until you do tech and they don't have many options with T0, particularly if they get trapped at a cutoff.
1 May 2015, 11:57 AM
#57
Posts: 1705
i don't want USF tech pushed back very much because as much of a balance problem as it is now for OKH, it fucking boring to play USF until you do tech and they don't have many options with T0, particularly if they get trapped at a cutoff.
Then don't push back tech,just remove the lieutenant.USF player will have to actually buy another rifle to keep numerical parity and no insta jump to m20 because -''hey i got free numerical superiority via lieutenant.Thanks relic!''
1 May 2015, 12:16 PM
#58
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Ostheer auto-unlocks panzerfaust, grenades, LMGs, shreks and all their infantry units for a total investment of 400mp and 80 fuel with 20 starting fuel.
USF needs something to counter-balance this fact. Either the free LTD stays, or the grenades/zooks/BARs upgrades need to be removed and unlocked for free as part of teching as the Ostheer get them. Otherwise we'll get the same fiasco as we got with Ostheer vs Soviet teching at release, except this time there are no doctrinal units to fill the gaps.
USF needs something to counter-balance this fact. Either the free LTD stays, or the grenades/zooks/BARs upgrades need to be removed and unlocked for free as part of teching as the Ostheer get them. Otherwise we'll get the same fiasco as we got with Ostheer vs Soviet teching at release, except this time there are no doctrinal units to fill the gaps.
1 May 2015, 12:38 PM
#59
Posts: 612
I agree with Aero, +1
1 May 2015, 12:42 PM
#60
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Ostheer auto-unlocks panzerfaust, grenades, LMGs, shreks and all their infantry units for a total investment of 400mp and 80 fuel with 20 starting fuel.
USF needs something to counter-balance this fact. Either the free LTD stays, or the grenades/zooks/BARs upgrades need to be removed and unlocked for free as part of teching as the Ostheer get them. Otherwise we'll get the same fiasco as we got with Ostheer vs Soviet teching at release, except this time there are no doctrinal units to fill the gaps.
That pretty much sums it up.
Strip axis from upgrades by default, make them side costs, make the teching cheaper in return(not needed for OKW as its cheapest in game already) and see how happy they will be.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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