The T 34 problem

Why on earth does Ram destroy the main weapon of the tank it hits? It basically nullifies german expensive armour as any of them can be just rammed and locked down. At least give rammed tanks a chance to fight back.

they still have machines guns where applicable and well that is the whole point of this discussion because at there current power level the soviets cant win many tank battles with out the use of ram

Again, you can compare straight to CoH1's Shermans. Just cuz i build 5 Shermans and then rush them straight at 2 Panthers and lose doesnt mean Shermans need a buff, it means I need to learn how to play. T34's are not a main battle anti-tank tank and they shouldnt be used as such but with Ram they can be used for literally everything short of mass shreks and even then they crush pretty well too.

Well, the moment russians don't NEED ram to counter panthers(seriously, russians need ram) we can discuss not having ram.

There is just nothing in the AT arsenal that can really counter panther without ram.

Panthers dont counter infantry. You're building paper to counter scissors and then trying to say paper needs X ability to be fair. Panthers are a dedicated TANK hunter, its what they do. Now building AT guns aka rocks to counter the panthers aka scissors would make sense, but too many people just see how easy it is to spam T34's that counter everything at the moment.

they dont counter Paks

They do counter infantry which man the paks You could circle a russian AT gun manned with 6 men for 2 minutes with a Panther and hope to deman it or you could circle a PAK with a T34 and deman it in 2 shots.

Agreed if you can flank the pak it is dead.

You are clearly not talking about a real fight with mixed army against mixed army.

T34 also don't counter infantry. They are not bad against it, but clearly dont counter it. Shreks and fausts can decimate t34 quite easy.

But even if they did, tell me what counters Panthers? (except for general stuff).
You have to see it in a whole picture, not just "X unit can do Y while also beeing good at Z".
Russians need an ability like ram because german armor is so strong atm.
So either, nerf german armor (late game armor is what i am talking about), or let the ram in. If you let the ram in the game, i think it fits best on the t34. it would be to cheap on T70 and would not fit the role of any T4 unit.
T34 as it is, is a Jack of all trades but master of none, which i think is fine.

T34 and RAM abilitie both need to be reworked to find a decent balance. I dunno how u cant agree if u played the game since beta...Sherman total unability to counter heavy tank has always been an design issue in COH, since 1.6

As the game currently stands once a decent wher player gets out panthers and supports them properly its essentially game over. I've been playing since alpha and the majority of my panther kills has been sinking them on the ice, now I use the ram just to take them out of the fight, if they are immobilised/main gun destroyed you don't even need to kill it, just focus down the supporting troops and let the panther drain their manpower.

Please use some sense when throwing the general 'use combined arms' argument. If I have guards, at guns, Su 85s and conscripts, they likely have panzergrenadiers, MGs, snipers and their own at guns.

Should ram cost munitions; yes. Should it destroy the main gun; yes as long as you hit the tank in the direction the gun is facing. This way you can at least micro your tank to attack ground behind yourself to keep you're gun intact, or do we not appreciate micro anymore in this game.

Panthers can kill infantry, effective as t34 or an ostwind? no. but if it gets enough shots off it can pick off infantry especially if your constantly reversing. Also against units with no AT like shocks you can just go in and crush.

Finally, the main problem is that panthers have slightly too much armour, and the t34, even the 34/85 penetration is too low. Armour needs a slight decrease (not over the top) and penetration also needs a slight increase. They shouldn't pen the front but at least be reliable on the side or rear. And for those struggling vs ram, lay mines, use shrecks/fausts, at guns and stugs.

My main problem (really my ONLY problem) with the T34 is that it costs less MP than ANY german AT unit. Seriously; 280mp + 75 fuel is too cheap. An AT gun is 360mp, pgrens for shrecks are ~360mp, the Panzer IV is 480mp, even the STUG is 300-something MP. The russians don't really need to spend fuel to get the things (not much tech cost), and then they need to spend almost zero MP (it's 40mp over a Conscript squad) to get a medium tank.

When a tank that is good against everything costs LESS than fragile AT, there's something wrong.

I'd buff it to about 340/80.

You know the reason it costs so little is because its armour is paper thin, its main gun has very little armour pen, it does not have a huge amout of HP and this ability that everyone is crying about nullifies your tank, guaranteed immobilise and main gun destroyed- if your stug could ram, would you at 300 + mp? doubtfull

You know the reason it costs so little is because its armour is paper thin, its main gun has very little armour pen, it does not have a huge amout of HP and this ability that everyone is crying about nullifies your tank, guaranteed immobilise and main gun destroyed- if your stug could ram, would you at 300 + mp? doubtfull

This is the point. A more expensive tank means ram is much more risky

This is the point. A more expensive tank means ram is much more risky

Ram should be used sparingly - not as a spammable AT-weapon. I've seen at least a few players do it RIGHT. They use the T34 to deal damage, and THEN when very low, or in a situation it won't escape from, will they use ram.

Ram shouldn't be cost-effective against STUGs. Right now it is.

Historically ramming was only used when the T34 was already very damaged, or against very powerful tanks, like the Tiger. Ramming a Panzer III made no sense.

The only reaosn why I mentioned removing the cpa ability was because I haven't seen many untis with 2 vet abilities, so if I was suggesting ram as a vet ability, then something had to be done (its still a stupid ability imho though).

The Ram mechanic could work, but like it has been stated over and over again, it is too damn cost effective. There is literally very little reason not to ram an enemy tank, right now.

The argument that keeps popping up is: "if you nerf Ram, then the russians have no AT!!!" Buff the other AT options. Buff the other AT options, buff the other AT options. Like in the original CoH, you are not supposed to go toe-to-toe with Axis armor.

The only reaosn why I mentioned removing the cpa ability was because I haven't seen many untis with 2 vet abilities, so if I was suggesting ram as a vet ability, then something had to be done (its still a stupid ability imho though).

The Ram mechanic could work, but like it has been stated over and over again, it is too damn cost effective. There is literally very little reason not to ram an enemy tank, right now.

The argument that keeps popping up is: "if you nerf Ram, then the russians have no AT!!!" Buff the other AT options. Buff the other AT options, buff the other AT options. Like in the original CoH, you are not supposed to go toe-to-toe with Axis armor.

yeah, sure.
Not going toe-to-toe is okay, but it takes a whole combined effort for russians to take out 1 tank. While germans can use these tanks to deal with russian armor or just use shreks. Russians have no cost effictive way to counter tanks (except for ram).
russians have a worse AT gun than germans.
The only half decent option is the SU85.

The imbalance lategame has to be countered somehow (or rebalanced). Especially since the early game advantage of russians is not as big as some people may make it seem.

Overall, I find Soviet floats munitions like mad.

Abilities and upgrades are cheap, some, like SU76 Barrage, are even free.

Munition cost on Ram would go a long way to hitting two birds with one stone in this regard.

Overall, I find Soviet floats munitions like mad.

Abilities and upgrades are cheap, some, like SU76 Barrage, are even free.

Munition cost on Ram would go a long way to hitting two birds with one stone in this regard.

And that's something everyone should be able to agree with.
But removing the ram, is just no option atm (if they don't change anything about German Armor).
I mean, how fast do you get engine damaged anyway, and you can't execute a ram with engine damaged.

While it's not a fun mechanic to play against (see treadbreak) if it's done to a full health panzer it's a waste unless that's the german players only AT AND you can kill the tank or tick the VPs in the meantime.

I haven't seen an immobilize crit from a ram since beta opened up again, donno if that was changed. But as it stands unless you are ramming an out of position tank the T34 is more likely to die than the Ostheer player's vehicle, because the 34 is immobilized and doesn't have much HP to start with. All it does is buy time unless you've also set up a flank on the tank you are ramming, in which case you sorta earned the kill.

Ram could be removed if cost of russian AT gun was made something like 300.