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3 Apr 2015, 22:41 PM
#21
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5

Using a small-scale beta to test balance changes is a pointless endeavour because in all but the most extreme situations, a small group of players isn't going to generate the volume of games necessary to draw any sort of meaningful conclusions. I can't think of another game that uses such an approach; SC2 has the PTR, which is available to everyone, Dota 2 never publically tests balance changes, only new heroes, and then only for buxfixing and not for balancing, and CSGO has no beta stream at all.

It's an entirely pointless thing to do, the only benefit being giving the community the impression that you're canvasing their opinions prior to release.
3 Apr 2015, 23:38 PM
#22
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

Well you've also repeatedly said that only "High Level" players are worth looking at for balance because only they have the skill level to make it meaningful

Now you come along saying that a small group of players won't generate enough games to be meaningful.


So what, exactly, do you except to happen?
3 Apr 2015, 23:40 PM
#23
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Well you've also repeatedly said that only "High Level" players are worth looking at for balance because only they have the skill level to make it meaningful

Now you come along saying that a small group of players won't generate enough games to be meaningful.


So what, exactly, do you except to happen?


Things being obviously broken like the PTRS instantly killing crew weapons would be found out a lot quicker with more testers, is what I think his point is. Obvious balance stuff can be figured out by pretty much anyone.
4 Apr 2015, 00:04 AM
#24
avatar of van Voort
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Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

It's not "instantly killing crew weapons"
4 Apr 2015, 00:05 AM
#25
avatar of van Voort
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Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2


Obvious balance stuff can be figured out by pretty much anyone.


And this is not what inverse believes
4 Apr 2015, 00:06 AM
#26
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2


... Obvious balance stuff can be figured out by pretty much anyone.


top notch sarcasm.
4 Apr 2015, 00:27 AM
#27
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



top notch sarcasm.


Obvious implies that it's not hard to notice, so the average player could see it.

It's not "instantly killing crew weapons"


Yes it is, or close to almost instantly killing. At 120 dps for 4 cons with PTRS they can kill a crew weapon in less than 3 seconds.

And this is not what inverse believes


More nuanced balance things like teching costs as well as specific stats on rare units should be dictated by the best, but for ultra-retarded stuff that everyone can notice it's not unreasonable for a majority of people to have a say.
4 Apr 2015, 00:58 AM
#28
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1679 | Subs: 5

Nobody can look at patch notes or a handful of games and make meaningful observations about balance in all but the most extreme situations. It takes months and hundreds of games before an RTS metagame begins to settle down after a patch, and it's only then that you can really properly evaluate balance. Doesn't change the fact that high-level players are by far the most qualified to make those evaluations.
4 Apr 2015, 01:57 AM
#29
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

Nobody can look at patch notes or a handful of games and make meaningful observations about balance in all but the most extreme situations. It takes months and hundreds of games before an RTS metagame begins to settle down after a patch, and it's only then that you can really properly evaluate balance.


Agreed

But people don't want that


They would rather cry OP than learn to adapt and want patches every month
4 Apr 2015, 02:25 AM
#30
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Agreed

But people don't want that


They would rather cry OP than learn to adapt and want patches every month


What is victim blaming?
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