Five man grenadier squads are exactly what Ostheer need.
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11 Mar 2015, 16:18 PM
#41
Posts: 2561
USF tech isn't as fast as you make it seem. Yes if you go luetenant then straight to major it's fast but you will have no upgrades for rifles and 0 AT . If you factor in at least 1 upgrade or captain, they get armor the same time around the same time as ost and sov.
11 Mar 2015, 16:24 PM
#42
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
And so will OKW, unless you count the PII as "armor" the Panther is 175 fuel, which is why (In Relic's view at least) it's balanced by being in t3.
11 Mar 2015, 18:08 PM
#43
Posts: 1705
Neither teching nor mg42 'small buff' will end ost gren squads getting 1 shotted.Or shitty pzgrens.
Fine,if grens stay 4 men,pzgrens at 5 men.At 340 mp they can't be blobbed or spammed.
And he has created a mod itself,why argue when u can test urself.
Fine,if grens stay 4 men,pzgrens at 5 men.At 340 mp they can't be blobbed or spammed.
And he has created a mod itself,why argue when u can test urself.
11 Mar 2015, 18:22 PM
#44
Posts: 1484
Neither teching nor mg42 'small buff' will end ost gren squads getting 1 shotted.Or shitty pzgrens.
Fine,if grens stay 4 men,pzgrens at 5 men.At 340 mp they can't be blobbed or spammed.
And he has created a mod itself,why argue when u can test urself.
Sadly, my path finders, CEs and RE troops will say the same.
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11 Mar 2015, 18:25 PM
#45
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Pathfinders, CEs, and RE's are core basic infantry now?
11 Mar 2015, 18:45 PM
#46
Posts: 1484
Pathfinders, CEs, and RE's are core basic infantry now?
No but I am not whining about it nor are the pro players, even Luvnest says Grens are ok. We have multiple squads get wiped from 4 man to 5 man, its all RNG. Why complain about this now after 3 years of the game release?
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11 Mar 2015, 18:47 PM
#47
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Neither teching nor mg42 'small buff' will end ost gren squads getting 1 shotted.Or shitty pzgrens.
Fine,if grens stay 4 men,pzgrens at 5 men.At 340 mp they can't be blobbed or spammed.
And he has created a mod itself,why argue when u can test urself.
3 men pathfinder squads.
You can dream, but it will only be a dream-always.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
11 Mar 2015, 18:53 PM
#48
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
No but I am not whining about it nor are the pro players, even Luvnest says Grens are ok. We have multiple squads get wiped from 4 man to 5 man, its all RNG. Why complain about this now after 3 years of the game release?
I don't care either way, but the fact that Ostheer squads, as in ALL OSTHEER SQUADS, are more vulnerable to RNG bullshit is true.
Not to mention this panic over blobbing is funny because what MP exactly is Ostheer going to blob with?
11 Mar 2015, 19:02 PM
#49
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
I like the idea of this. It would make Grens easier to use for the average player. However, they'd need to see their DPS spread out amongst the 5 models so the damage remains the same.
The views and opinions expressed in my posts and topics are solely those of the Napalm. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of Relic, the developers, The Angry Bears and/or any/all contributors to this site.
11 Mar 2015, 19:34 PM
#50
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
At least it is useful when 4v4 turns into artyfest.
5-man irregulars, anyone?
And it's bugged and keeps revealing units on the tactical map
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
11 Mar 2015, 19:35 PM
#51
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
5 man, for 280MP, that wolud be good
11 Mar 2015, 19:39 PM
#52
Posts: 322
I like the idea of this. It would make Grens easier to use for the average player. However, they'd need to see their DPS spread out amongst the 5 models so the damage remains the same.
I don't. Unless they reduce cost reinforce would be the same for less dps per model, In essence a nerf.
Grens are not particularly hard to use already so making it more easy dose not have a huge benefit,
In fact it encourages more straight gren spam because grens would outshine the support teams even more than they do already.
Wehrmacht support teams and bad/useless units is were to buff OST, Like 222, Pgren, MG-42, Sniper, Stug.
11 Mar 2015, 19:47 PM
#53
Posts: 627
Sigh.
No.
They're balanced to a 4 man squad with DPS compared to a conscript squad of 6 men.
Upping grens to 5 means you need to split the DPS across the 5 models, fine, whatever. But you also have 80hp more across those 5 models, which would be death for already fragile gren/con combat.
So then you need up buff conscripts DPS to compensate, which affects the balance of conscripts versus, say, volksgrenadiers and sturmpioneers. Yada yada yada.
Making one unit suddenly bigger than it ever was- especially one as alarmingly powerful with an LMG and a bit of vet- is a seriously dangerous preposition. It affects a lot more than people give it credit for when it comes to internal balance.
Some other units you could maaaybe get away with it. But your core T1 infantry, with a great AI upgrade, bunker building, vehicle snare, and the best handheld grenade in the game?
Nah.
No.
They're balanced to a 4 man squad with DPS compared to a conscript squad of 6 men.
Upping grens to 5 means you need to split the DPS across the 5 models, fine, whatever. But you also have 80hp more across those 5 models, which would be death for already fragile gren/con combat.
So then you need up buff conscripts DPS to compensate, which affects the balance of conscripts versus, say, volksgrenadiers and sturmpioneers. Yada yada yada.
Making one unit suddenly bigger than it ever was- especially one as alarmingly powerful with an LMG and a bit of vet- is a seriously dangerous preposition. It affects a lot more than people give it credit for when it comes to internal balance.
Some other units you could maaaybe get away with it. But your core T1 infantry, with a great AI upgrade, bunker building, vehicle snare, and the best handheld grenade in the game?
Nah.
11 Mar 2015, 19:48 PM
#54
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
If Grens kept the same DPS across 5 models than Conscripts wouldn't be in anyway more or less effective, especially if grens cost more.
11 Mar 2015, 20:14 PM
#55
4 
Posts: 369
Not in any way? How about in the way of more HP?
11 Mar 2015, 20:18 PM
#56
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Not in any way? How about in the way of more HP?
If we are going by raw HP being a factor for what is best, than cons are the best basic infantry in the game. That of course, is obviously not true.
Grens with the same DPS and damage will preform just as they did before, just less squad wipable.
11 Mar 2015, 20:22 PM
#57
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
If we are going by raw HP being a factor for what is best, than cons are the best basic infantry in the game. That of course, is obviously not true.
Grens with the same DPS and damage will preform just as they did before, just less squad wipable.
They'd also have inflated durability from the same received accuracy modifier previously being used to compensate being 4-men and the extra man could mess with Scripts' chances against them (due to them being less vulnerable to DPS loss from losing a man).
It can still work, but just an extra man with DPS remaining alike wouldn't leave their performance exactly alike.
11 Mar 2015, 20:25 PM
#58
Posts: 627
If we are going by raw HP being a factor for what is best, than cons are the best basic infantry in the game. That of course, is obviously not true.
Grens with the same DPS and damage will preform just as they did before, just less squad wipable.
Sigh. No.
Grens would do the same thing to conscripts, but every other squad in the game would need to do 25% more damage than they currently do to grenadiers to kill them.
This is a direct and substantial durability buff comparable to the current bonus for being vet 3. And this bonus affects said veterancy bonuses in a multiplicative fashion, so it only gets worse.
Unless you also cut the health of each model by 1/5th, the change is huge.
11 Mar 2015, 20:26 PM
#59
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
They'd also have inflated durability from the same received accuracy modifier previously being used to compensate being 4-men and the extra man could mess with Scripts' chances against them (due to them being less vulnerable to DPS loss from losing a man).
It can still work, but just an extra man with DPS remaining alike wouldn't leave their performance exactly alike.
Then just reduce their received accuracy modifier?
11 Mar 2015, 20:28 PM
#60
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Sigh. No.
Grens would do the same thing to conscripts, but every other squad in the game would need to do 25% more damage than they currently do to grenadiers to kill them.
This is a direct and substantial durability buff comparable to the current bonus for being vet 3. And this bonus affects said veterancy bonuses in a multiplicative fashion, so it only gets worse.
Unless you also cut the health of each model by 1/5th, the change is huge.
You can keep the DPS and damage the same as it was before. So grens would preform exactly as they did before, but would be less vulnerable to nades and indirect fire.
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