Should PTRS be stronger?

Soviets didn't need handheld AT because they had a lot of tanks. They don't really get more tanks than the opposition in the game right now.

Your PaK has to stop, reload, and then fire meanwhile the quite fast t34/85 will probably not sit in the face of an enemy AT gun.

He said mark target but in his other post said old button.

And old button made you unable to reverse, or rotate. Sure you could use smoke but against someone who can attack ground if your buttoned he's still going to kill you.

And the Target weak point stun doesn't last nearly as long as Old Button did, sorry.

I would like to see Guards come without weapons stock with the ability to either buy three buffed PTRS rifles and maybe holster them or upgrade to their DPS. The former doesn't make them totally teeth less against infantry while the later improves their AI and gives them Button(possibly improved). So no locking down light vehicles and killing it horribly like they did a while back unless there are multiple guards which means tons of munitions spent elsewhere (less mines).

I've been testing some changes so far in the editor here's what I did, though no accurate numbers as I do not have my notes currently on hand:
PTRS Penetration slightly increased
PTRS Accuracy increased
Deflection damage of 20 (so they're not absolutely worthless against heavier vehicles)
Three PTRS Rifles for 75 munitions.
Range increase back to 45 (thought could probably remain the same if I knew what to edit to stop their dancing)

We already have Para's and 1919 riflemen no thanks.

Could easily make that Vet 1 ability not game breaking. I took the files from Hit the Dirt and it got this.

Guard's Hold Position
-10% increase in accuracy
-10% reduction in received accuracy
-Squad cannot move
-Cool down between activation and de-activation to prevent simply toggling between the two every 5 seconds.
-Can still be suppressed/pinned

Button used to totally lock down a tank and made it stupid easy to kill with AT weaponry.

Sounds extremely familiar with something that is predominant in a large mass...

And button is definitely much crappier than a stun. Blitzing, smoking, waddling out of range, and shooting/causing the Guards to move an inch invalidated the button ability, which wasnt that cheap, especially when you needed to buy the weapon with munitions as well (100+ munitions to stall a tank until forced to cancel compared to a handful of munitions for an AT gun to shoot a sure shotted stun shell in which the tank cant do anything for a few seconds...)

It was all Guards were good for. The only use as to have them be rarer than Su-76's after the nerf... Ive seen Guards used less than a dozen times since that patch.

Mark target used to be even more powerful (as to be the prime option for negating the buff Old TA had). Button and Mark Target were seen as the assymmetry for superior Axis tanks. Having tanks that need to require a lot of force to take down also meant that the enemy can pull something out of their sleeve to even the odds.

And the post before this is a real suggestion to convince someone why to choose Guards.

Your PaK has to stop, reload, and then fire meanwhile the quite fast t34/85 will probably not sit in the face of an enemy AT gun.

He said mark target but in his other post said old button.

And old button made you unable to reverse, or rotate. Sure you could use smoke but against someone who can attack ground if your buttoned he's still going to kill you.

And the Target weak point stun doesn't last nearly as long as Old Button did, sorry.

You clearly A) Cannot read and B) don't know about button.

A) He said Target Weak Point, you quoted it directly, it's right there in the post moments before you say mark target.

B) Smoke instantly cancelled the effects of button, because it requires LoS. It's not just a smokescreen, it literally makes a soviet player pay 45 to have it cancelled for half that.

And to top it all off, all you need to do it set a PaK up in wait for said T-34-85 and click the TWP button before it comes into range, or the moment you see it. PaK reload is absurdly fast even if your first shot is not your TWP one.

And go look up the stun times for TWP and the duration of Button, and then get back to me. Because button duration never changed. It just got made worthless.

That works but I feel like it really doesn't add much. A cool vet 1 ability would be something like sniping a tanks gunner or something.

Button used to totally lock down a tank and made it stupid easy to kill with AT weaponry. I would rather have old button than mark target in 90% of situations.

Using a few guard squads you could basically make any enemy armor useless with just a small amount of micro.

Ok no

the old button slowed down the tank, and disabled the gun. that was it. at anytime the german player could a smoke out of the button, or b kill the guard squad that had to get very close to make it worth willed. this was because if the tank got about of the range the button failed.

With this in mine lets look at this more micro intensive Target weak point now, which relic thinks give more options from the enemy play to reactive and is not one side at all. tank comes into view of a Pak40 or a Stug. Push button tank is stunned for 3 secs.

HHHMMMM one click dead tank, and the funny thing is the guard needed help, pak dose not. Relic nerfing the Button and making the target weak point better was a joke. With the most laugh able reason.

The intent of these changes is to provide the opposing player an opportunity to react and counter the usage of button. Currently, the ability is very one sided, it provides the Soviet player with a quick and easy to execute vehicle snare without much counterplay in-between. By providing the opposing player with a way to react, the counter-play relative to unit positioning is better defined, thus reducing the receiving player’s frustration when the ability is executed.

OW relic you, it is statment like this that makes me thing you only play germans

Sounds extremely familiar with something that is predominant in a large mass...

And button is definitely much crappier than a stun. Blitzing, smoking, waddling out of range, and shooting/causing the Guards to move an inch invalidated the button ability, which wasnt that cheap, especially when you needed to buy the weapon with munitions as well (100+ munitions to stall a tank until forced to cancel compared to a handful of munitions for an AT gun to shoot a sure shotted stun shell in which the tank cant do anything for a few seconds...)

It was all Guards were good for. The only use as to have them be rarer than Su-76's after the nerf... Ive seen Guards used less than a dozen times since that patch.

Mark target used to be even more powerful (as to be the prime option for negating the buff Old TA had). Button and Mark Target were seen as the assymmetry for superior Axis tanks. Having tanks that need to require a lot of force to take down also meant that the enemy can pull something out of their sleeve to even the odds.

Current Button is horrible, Old Button was extremely good. Really they are not comparable anymore. Old button negated Blitzkrieg and you could barely even move. Plus you couldn't shoot either. 100+ munitions to ensure the destruction of any tank is very much worth it.

I'm sorry Relic can't make an ability worth it but insanely overpowered *shrug*.

Guards need a buff, that much is certain, what they don't need it the ability to lock down any tank in the game.

You clearly A) Cannot read and B) don't know about button.

A) He said Target Weak Point, you quoted it directly, it's right there in the post moments before you say mark target.

B) Smoke instantly cancelled the effects of button, because it requires LoS. It's not just a smokescreen, it literally makes a soviet player pay 45 to have it cancelled for half that.

And to top it all off, all you need to do it set a PaK up in wait for said T-34-85 and click the TWP button before it comes into range, or the moment you see it. PaK reload is absurdly fast even if your first shot is not your TWP one.

And go look up the stun times for TWP and the duration of Button, and then get back to me. Because button duration never changed. It just got made worthless.

Bleh, I thought he meant the Mark Target ability.

Pak reload isn't insanely fast, it gives the tank several seconds to move out of range. Seriously this is starting to get silly. Button was an ability that instantly blinded a tank and shut it down.

Yeah smoke, this doctrine only thing that you pay 45 munitions to activate. Which if he has a single guard squad behind you then your still fucked because Button is an instant ability.

Button was made worthless, but that doesn't mean the PaK stun shot is OP.

The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.

Top fukin kek

the PTRS's are extremely potent.

Huge L2P issue bro

I can't remember the last time I saw a Guards squad, in one of my games or a replay/stream, get a vehicle kill.

Ok no

the old button slowed down the tank, and disabled the gun. that was it. at anytime the german player could a smoke out of the button, or b kill the guard squad that had to get very close to make it worth willed. this was because if the tank got about of the range the button failed.

With this in mine lets look at this more micro intensive Target weak point now, which relic thinks give more options from the enemy play to reactive and is not one side at all. tank comes into view of a Pak40 or a Stug. Push button tank is stunned for 3 secs.

HHHMMMM one click dead tank, and the funny thing is the guard needed help, pak dose not. Relic nerfing the Button and making the target weak point better was a joke. With the most laugh able reason.

The intent of these changes is to provide the opposing player an opportunity to react and counter the usage of button. Currently, the ability is very one sided, it provides the Soviet player with a quick and easy to execute vehicle snare without much counterplay in-between. By providing the opposing player with a way to react, the counter-play relative to unit positioning is better defined, thus reducing the receiving player’s frustration when the ability is executed.

OW relic you, it is statment like this that makes me thing you only play germans

Stun shot is not instantaneous. The tank/at gun needs to reload, and the PaK40 reload speed was nerfed exactly because of this reason.

Old button made a tank so slow that it simulated the tank having heavy engine damage. And it blinded it so you couldn't see anything around your tank either.

Really button just needed to be toned down, or need a reload timer like stun shot.

Current Button is horrible, Old Button was extremely good. Really they are not comparable anymore. Old button negated Blitzkrieg and you could barely even move. Plus you couldn't shoot either. 100+ munitions to ensure the destruction of any tank is very much worth it.

I'm sorry Relic can't make an ability worth it but insanely overpowered *shrug*.

Guards need a buff, that much is certain, what they don't need it the ability to lock down any tank in the game.



Bleh, I thought he meant the Mark Target ability.

Pak reload isn't insanely fast, it gives the tank several seconds to move out of range. Seriously this is starting to get silly. Button was an ability that instantly blinded a tank and shut it down.

Yeah smoke, this doctrine only thing that you pay 45 munitions to activate. Which if he has a single guard squad behind you then your still fucked because Button is an instant ability.

Button was made worthless, but that doesn't mean the PaK stun shot is OP.

Currently, the ability is very one sided, it provides the German player with a quick and easy to execute vehicle snare without much counterplay in-between. By providing the opposing player with a way to react, the counter-play relative to unit positioning is better defined, thus reducing the receiving player’s frustration when the ability is executed.

Currently, the ability is very one sided, it provides the German player with a quick and easy to execute vehicle snare without much counterplay in-between. By providing the opposing player with a way to react, the counter-play relative to unit positioning is better defined, thus reducing the receiving player’s frustration when the ability is executed.

Counter play to stun shot is "Don't drive your tanks into AT guns". The Ostheer AT gun is fragile, and if a tank gets around it it's instantly dead due to the small crew size.

Stun shot isn't OP, it's just a good vet ability and it's good compared to the now total garbage button.

Current Button is horrible, Old Button was extremely good. Really they are not comparable anymore. Old button negated Blitzkrieg and you could barely even move. Plus you couldn't shoot either. 100+ munitions to ensure the destruction of any tank is very much worth it.

I'm sorry Relic can't make an ability worth it but insanely overpowered *shrug*.

Guards need a buff, that much is certain, what they don't need it the ability to lock down any tank in the game.

And now we have even cheaper options that perform better and have no chance for counterplay.

And last i check, Guards cant waltz anywhere they want and button everything to death. If the model holding the DP died, button was canceled. If the squad was hit by a grenade during the ability, the ability was cancelled. If the squad was pushed by another vehicle the ability was cancelled. So yes, if you blitz a lone panzer iv to finish off a t34 and was caught by Guards the tank will die. I dont remember people turning into drooling apes when they see that their tank was buttoned...

At the time, Elite Troops was extremely popular. Smoking away from button still meant the enemy still spent more munitions than you. Blitz + smoke all the time save tanks that should have died. Yet apparently we all think they are perfectly balanced abilities.

Miragefla has a great suggestion that provides a munitions sink for Soviets that reduces the amount of demos and mines, and doesnt involve Guards having "OP" button.

Counter play to stun shot is "Don't drive your tanks into AT guns". The Ostheer AT gun is fragile, and if a tank gets around it it's instantly dead due to the small crew size.

Stun shot isn't OP, it's just a good vet ability and it's good compared to the now total garbage button.

My god, how sensible! I'll just use my magic telepathy power to see into the FoW. Not driving into AT guns is so super easy when their range is longer than the line of sight of any of my units. How did I never think of this before.

Avoiding at AT gun with range longer than your sight is so much easier than avoiding getting close to a guard squad with a buttoning range substantially less than LoS. Of course.

Huge L2P issue bro

I can't remember the last time I saw a Guards squad, in one of my games or a replay/stream, get a vehicle kill.

No, it's not a L2P issue. I'm a top tier player so I know a thing or two about playing CoH2, which means my opinion carries weight unlike most people's opinions here. I can say for certain that Guards and their PTRS rifles have a huge impact on the game; I've lost my fair share of matches(In 2v2 ranked) where Guards saved the Rus player and granted them a victory; PTRS rifles are strong enough to stop a Luchs rush, a half track rush or any rush from any type of vehicles, and it doesn't even stop there- apparently Relic thought it was a good idea to give Guard Infantry the ability to decimate light/medium vehicles as well as infantry. I can't even move Volks up to engage them without their PTRS rifles killing a few models.

The problem wasn't that you had 1 squad of Guards doing it. The problem was you had armies of Guards roaming the map basically just whackamoling your tanks. They shouldn't have nerfed it as hard as they did, end of story.

And no, stun shot has counter play. It's called not driving you tanks in front of enemy AT guns

Counter play to stun shot is "Don't drive your tanks into AT guns". The Ostheer AT gun is fragile, and if a tank gets around it it's instantly dead due to the small crew size.

Stun shot isn't OP, it's just a good vet ability and it's good compared to the now total garbage button.

Le sigh.

"Counter play for old button was 'Dont drive your tanks into guards". Guards are 6 men infantry squads that can be suppressed, ran over, smoked, and grenaded, invalidating their use due to it being an infantry squad trying to do its job.

Button wasnt OP. It was just an expensive and effective ability to take out superior Krupp Steel panzers that took forever to kill"

Shall we dig this hole deeper?

My god, how sensible! I'll just use my magic telepathy power to see into the FoW. Not driving into AT guns is so super easy when their range is longer than the line of sight of any of my units. How did I never think of this before.

Avoiding at AT gun with range longer than your sight is so much easier than avoiding getting close to a guard squad with a buttoning range substantially less than LoS. Of course.

AT gun's need units to sight for themselves, you should be going in infantry first tanks second to make sure there are no surprises waiting for your armor.

Seriously, the Ostheer Pak40 isn't a issue, it has 10 more pen than the ZiS but is more fragile.

Le sigh.

"Counter play for old button was 'Dont drive your tanks into guards". Guards are 6 men infantry squads that can be suppressed, ran over, smoked, and grenaded, invalidating their use due to it being an infantry squad trying to do its job.

Button wasnt OP. It was just an expensive and effective ability to take out superior Krupp Steel panzers that took forever to kill"

Shall we dig this hole deeper?

Guards were enemy infantry that could come out in pretty significant numbers. The issue was that you could just spam cards and still do okay versus enemy infantry while helping make all enemy armor that dared get anywere near your Guards could get driven off pretty fast.

If the Ostheer AT gun was effective versus enemy infantry, AND was mobile then yes it's stun shot would be OP.

-PTRS rifles are strong enough to stop a Luchs rush, a half track rush-

Excuse me?

You mean the two vehicles which can kite the guards all day long without ever letting them take the time to aim and fire back?

One of which suppresses them instantly as well as going an arse ton of damage? And comes with smoke if things get hairy?

Jesus. They stop you just driving them right into their base, for a little while, at best. They don't actually force them off. They just die.

Maybe try playing a game as soviets ever? And deflate your massively over hyped epeen ego?