Ostheer - MG42

Since ost rarely goes over T2 and soviets pretty much always have to go for AT nades/molos, the costs equals out.

Well technically yes, if both sides build t2, get all upgrades and healing then the difference is about 50 or 60 manpower.

However.....

Soviets can delay all upgrades ( ex molotovs ) and buildings and push offensively where as Ost will need to tech else they will get caught out. Obviously you can look in opponents base every 30 secs and leave building till last min but that is hard to keep track off.

I am sure you can argue situations to the contary, but most games i play and watch sov outnumber ost early - mid game. If soviets decide to go full spam ( like lenny ) then they can gain numerical advantage ( i am not arguing that there doesn't come a point where it falls down ).

The comments i made earlier in regard to mg related to first 10 mins of game. Also to those that wish to nitpick i should have said cons can outmaneuver mgs if they have numerical advantage due to being mobile as opposed to mgs being largely static in nature.

If people fear that suppression adjustments would make the MG42 overpowered early, one could consider giving it some additional performance bonus at vet1 (similar to Volks vet1) other than the ability to fire incendiary ammo.

Thus it can become useful with vet1 already and doesn´t cause major balance changes too early.

Leave it as it is,just don't expect ostheer to be a viable 1 vs 1 faction.Because grens can fight neither conspam with micro nor riflespam with current mg42 succesfully at same skill.Smoke is iwin button.

Grenades are an investment for USF in MP and Fuel + ammo to use, which delay your tiers upgrade. If you believe it shouldn't negate your MG lockdown, here again you're 100% wrong.

Smoke comes too early,it invalidates the main lynchpin of ostheer infantry tactics too quickly,combined with grens totally bullied by rifle DPS it overpowers ostheer rather easily.I wouldn't have problems if smoke was avaialable aftre lieutenant.
Its a iwin button.Setup and reposition takes so much time,before u again setup he's on top of you or close enough to gun down mg gunner/grenade wipe.Usually once mg is made useless,rifles walk over the poor grenadiers who can't do anything,totally outclassed -and then mass retreat.

Smoke comes too early,it invalidates the main lynchpin of ostheer infantry tactics too quickly,combined with grens totally bullied by rifle DPS it overpowers ostheer rather easily.I wouldn't have problems if smoke was avaialable aftre lieutenant.
Its a iwin button.Setup and reposition takes so much time,before u again setup he's on top of you or close enough to gun down mg gunner/grenade wipe.Usually once mg is made useless,rifles walk over the poor grenadiers who can't do anything,totally outclassed -and then mass retreat.

Can you please link your "playercard"?

Smoke comes too early,it invalidates the main lynchpin of ostheer infantry tactics too quickly,combined with grens totally bullied by rifle DPS it overpowers ostheer rather easily.I wouldn't have problems if smoke was avaialable aftre lieutenant.
Its a iwin button.Setup and reposition takes so much time,before u again setup he's on top of you or close enough to gun down mg gunner/grenade wipe.Usually once mg is made useless,rifles walk over the poor grenadiers who can't do anything,totally outclassed -and then mass retreat.

This only if you don't have spotter, MG42s have better range than smoknades, so by the time they fire the smoke and go in to eventually use a grenade, you have by far enough time to reposition your MG.

I really have a problem with your idea, what do you expect, anything that goes into your cone of fire should be insta pin and can only hit retreat button? Is that your conception of a balanced system? You put an MG and its already a major threat for USF in early game (I'll not talk about Sov), USF cannot just retreat every time it face an MG otherwise its a GG because you can simply push them and lock them into their base with 2 MGs. Your MG is there not to kill but to slow down and debuff, and you do the killing job with your grenadiers. Now maybe grenadiers are underperforming at vet0, but the MG no.

Someone has a really good comment on MGs, there is no more skill and micro in putting an MG to lockdown a sector than using a smoke and going straight away to overtake it.
And I'll add to this: Player's skill evaluation comes when the smoke has been launch and the best microing decides the faith of the skirmish.

Guys, seriously, give me any replay of any player where MG42 getting #rekt in situation, where you think it shouldn't be.

I really want to belive you, but my own experience of using it just tells me that it is fine if used correctly.

All austrelitz posts is about ''rifleman is too stronk, ostheer is to weak please buff ost'' etc.

Clear whining, nothing constructive. I wanna say even small ostheer buff will make soviets most useless faction ever, and OPKW is still waiting for nerfhammer abot 7 months.

i dont get what all the fuss is about.

my opinion is that relative to the other options that tier 1 gives the ostheer, the mg is in a very good spot.

i build one every game and if i loose it, i usually replace it even in late stages of a match.

the statistics shown at the end of each game give you some idea of how this unit performs. usually i get nearly the same amount of damage out of my mg as of each grenadier. on top of that when comparded to grenadiers, the mg usually sends lots of enemy squads home through supression, has to be reinforced less over the course of a game and it does not require upgrades that cost munitions to be effective.

the mg42 has a great vet 1 ability and at vet 2 i think nobody can complain about low supression rates since it gaines 20% extra.

compare the performance of this unit to the wehrmacht sniper, the mortar or even panzergrenadiers i would say that the mg42 is in general more cost efficient than any of these options.

Leave it as it is,just don't expect ostheer to be a viable 1 vs 1 faction.Because grens can fight neither conspam with micro nor riflespam with current mg42 succesfully at same skill.Smoke is iwin button.

Grens are the second most cost effective infantry in this game. Conspam is not a problem. Cons and grens cost exactly the same. They might have two more additional cons than u have grens. But this doesnt matter when u can have an mg42, and a halftrack. While sov are stuck with either t1 or t2.

Smoke is is an "iwin" button if u let it be. Learn how to re-possition ur mg's

Which imo both suck against ost due to fausts and rifle grenades

Learn how to micro and play defensively with OST

mg 42 slow setup time than other gun it need to setup for def battle not atk like maxim and .50cal
i suggest lower setup time for help avoid grenade (form decrease 0.5 sec form 3-4 sec) ?

mg 42 slow setup time than other gun it need to setup for def battle not atk like maxim and .50cal
i suggest lower setup time for help avoid grenade (form decrease 0.5 sec form 3-4 sec) ?

No.

How hard is it to move ur mg when its position is not optimal?

Grens are the second most cost effective infantry in this game. Conspam is not a problem. Cons and grens cost exactly the same. They might have two more additional cons than u have grens. But this doesnt matter when u can have an mg42, and a halftrack. While sov are stuck with either t1 or t2.

Smoke is is an "iwin" button if u let it be. Learn how to re-possition ur mg's

Which imo both suck against ost due to fausts and rifle grenades

Learn how to micro and play defensively with OST

Jesus kid. Everybody is already playing defensively with Ost. Its just like the old days, OH trying to lock down 1/3 of the map. Problem being that OH does by no means possess as strong a lategame relative to vCoH Wehr vs US. Advising people to "learn how to play" is not constructive either, nor is it classy...

Grens are the second most cost effective infantry in this game. Conspam is not a problem. Cons and grens cost exactly the same. They might have two more additional cons than u have grens. But this doesnt matter when u can have an mg42, and a halftrack. While sov are stuck with either t1 or t2.

Smoke is is an "iwin" button if u let it be. Learn how to re-possition ur mg's

Which imo both suck against ost due to fausts and rifle grenades

Learn how to micro and play defensively with OST

By and large grenadiers can't defeat conspam if microed well,this is recent trend..this is because u need to tech also and grens can't really counter the shocks that will follow with mass urrah.Problem is far lesser than usf,but its not 'conspam is not a problem'.Go to ostheer strategies forum -currently a topic is running by australian magic,mostly allied player now playing ost and struggling against conspam.He isn't certainly axis fanboy,if his post history is taken into account.
Before telling how to learn to play ,come and play ost urself ,then talk.

Jesus kid. Everybody is already playing defensively with Ost. Its just like the old days, OH trying to lock down 1/3 of the map. Problem being that OH does by no means possess as strong a lategame relative to vCoH Wehr vs US. Advising people to "learn how to play" is not constructive either, nor is it classy...

It is beyond his comprehension,u expect maximspammer/sniper car cheese ,ameri a-move blobber to lecture on defensive play be taken seriously?He thinks repositioning mg42 is as easy as maxim when rifles are bearing down on you.

No.

How hard is it to move ur mg when its position is not optimal?

Oh you know,we are not mercedes maxim who can setup-resetup at will in microseconds.

All austrelitz posts is about ''rifleman is too stronk, ostheer is to weak please buff ost'' etc.

Clear whining, nothing constructive. I wanna say even small ostheer buff will make soviets most useless faction ever, and OPKW is still waiting for nerfhammer abot 7 months.

Its not whinning,its truth.Ask the majority.Everyone knows usf vs ost is mostly autoloss atm for ost.Ost pathetic performance backed by tournament stats and fact that most didn't even choose ost because they knew if opoonent chose usf they would autolose.
I have given several constructive posts in the past,but nothing has happened..ost has been same for 6 months,only getting nerfs.So sometimes i rage,because the situation is worthy of it.Play ostheer for a couple dozen matches 1 vs 1 then bark.

I really have a problem with your idea, what do you expect, anything that goes into your cone of fire should be insta pin and can only hit retreat button? Is that your conception of a balanced system? You put an MG and its already a major threat for USF in early game (I'll not talk about Sov), USF cannot just retreat every time it face an MG otherwise its a GG because you can simply push them and lock them into their base with 2 MGs. Your MG is there not to kill but to slow down and debuff, and you do the killing job with your grenadiers. Now maybe grenadiers are underperforming at vet0, but the MG no.

Someone has a really good comment on MGs, there is no more skill and micro in putting an MG to lockdown a sector than using a smoke and going straight away to overtake it.
And I'll add to this: Player's skill evaluation comes when the smoke has been launch and the best microing decides the faith of the skirmish.

What i expect - less than 3-4 rifles shouldn't frontally walk in and beat mg42 due to bad traverse or unreliable suppression or whatver,gunner getting killed- which happens.
Suppressed squads shouldn't wipe mg regularly with grenade.

The reason mg42 buff is needed because without it ostheer can't compete earlygame without it atm.
Alternatively u can keep mg42 as it is,instead buff grenadiers to 5 men at same dps.That will work too.You have to give us some fightback option vs rifles.If not this will continue,even if u call it whining.Eventually if nothing is done ost players will simply stop playing 1 vs 1 altogether or leave because why autolose.Why keep it as a faction 1 vs 1 anyway?To mock?

So fine,keep mg42 is -but then grenadiers get buff to fight rifles .Coz something has got to give as far as ostheer earlygame is concerned.This shit has gone on long enough.

Ask the majority.

Majority plays okw/axis only.

Majority plays okw/axis only.

Ask the tourney stats then.Numbers don't lie.