Posts: 1042
Tbh Ostheer late game isn't actually as good as you think it is, I get the Elefant far more these days than I get a Tiger because a Tiger isn't going to do jack shit against a horde of mediums. A Elefant will constantly be forcing mediums to quit the field or sniping them.
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Isn't as good as I think?
Show me the non-doctrinal allied equivalent of the Panther.
The existence of the panther alone is enough to render one whole Soviet building null and void, never mind the doctrinal stuff.
gameplay should come first, historical accuracy second. if you look at ost t3, youll see panzer 4 - generalist medium tank, ostwind - anti-infantry anti-air medium tank, stug - not so good at either anti infantry or anti-tank.
it makes sense to give ost t3 a dedicated tank destroyer.
Posts: 2053
Agreed, but it make sense given the nature of the StuG for it to be good at AT and AI, the fact it doesn't have a turret means that you can always flank it with a tank or infantry unit. On top of that a simple buff to to the frontal armor and a tad more health and you have a perfect tank to round out T3. (The Ostwind should have more armor and the PIV should have more health).
Posts: 4928
Show me the non-doctrinal allied equivalent of the Panther.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
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But for the game, it would certainly be better if the Stug had a real role that wasnt already taken. Your mentioned buff or current situation, the stug and panzer iv are very identical - one has no turret but a little more range (and still would have less health) and one actually has a turret, costs a bit more, and is great for combat against most medium tanks and infantry - granted zero jacksons are around. If someone considered getting Ost T3, they would still get panzer IV's 100% of the time as it is the better of the two. For what reason would i get a stug? Anyone get a stug?
The machine gun is its AI
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I don't think that ost is the worst faction, grenadier lmg42 is good against usf rifles and of course tiger is god damn good against their tanks.
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we dont need an assault gun, panzer4 and ostwind already fulfill the role of anti-infantry in t3. ost needs an tank destroyer
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Posts: 1705
The Elefant is a far, far better counter to enemy mediums thank the Tiger. I would much rather have an Elefant than a Tiger if I'm facing mediums with infantry support.
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Yeah i have removed tiger doctrines because they can't cut it vs is-2s and struggle vs jacksons and e8s.(i don't have mech assaualt)Been using jaeger armor for riegels,stuka and elfant again vs soviets.Or festung armor with smoke and pak43.Pak43 or elefant is must vs is-2.
Final option is close air support for t2 muni conversion panzergrenadier/mine/lmg42 spam.
Posts: 1705
Fortified armor is honestly the best Elefant doctrine in my opinion unless you have to counter B4.
Posts: 4928
(The Ostwind should have more armor and the PIV should have more health)
The StuG being able to take on infantry and armor like the PIV but lacking a turret would make it function like an actual assault gun which is supposed to attack enemy armor and entrenched infantry. You would get a PIV if you need more mobile AI and AT. For instance I would want a StuG if I'm attacking an enemies fortified position, but a PIV If I need to support a more mobile force.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
Posts: 322
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640 is the standard health for medium tanks, and 160 is the standard for damage. Giving it even a single health point more would increase the Shots to Kill from 4 to 5, making it even more superior to other stock tanks.
The problem with the dual AI / AT StuG is that it doesn't serve an unfulfilled purpose. The Ostwind is hard AI (also AA), and the Panzer IV is soft AT / soft AI, but the StuG is also soft AT / soft AI. The StuG doesn't really serve much of a role other than being cheaper than a Panzer IV but lacks durability.
Personally, I'd rather see the StuG increased to T-34/76 price and AI lowered, in exchange for armour, health, range, and penetration. HE / AP swap would be fun, but that'd steal the Sherman's thunder.
Posts: 380
Supporting your tiger with 1-2 packs and Jacksons or e8 will no problem for you. Three squads of grenadiers with stars and lmg42 wiping rifles in late game. I have always problems with them when iam playing usf.
Lmg42 loses to both paras with bars,or 1919 rifles whichever company usf player chose.
And no tiger isn't all that great vs tanks -struggles vs both jackson and easy eights,can only bully shermans - but lacks speed to pursue and finish off.Its mostly a damage sponge/infantry-at gun killer.What u think doesn't change stats .
Posts: 322
Supporting your tiger with 1-2 packs and Jacksons or e8 will no problem for you. Three squads of grenadiers with stars and lmg42 wiping rifles in late game. I have always problems with them when iam playing usf.
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