Japan wouldnt fit into coh2, no.
But if coh3 were based around that theatre, you could have all the dense tight infantry fighting in jungles as mentioned.
They could attempt to bring more water into maps and have island based maps, amphibious craft, beach landings, island hoping.. How the Pacific was fought.
You could have naval abilities like gun battery bombardments.
The air battles could be taken to the next level, dog fighting, kamikazis etc.
They could even toy with hand to hand combat abilities like a Japanese sword charge?
So what if you dont have heavy tanks, thats what coh2 is about, this could be refreshing.
Obviously thats just ideas, but I do think its the theatre that offers the most unique gameplay and features, fits the timeline of coh1+2 and offers another opportunity for Relic to really push the boundaries, if they wanted to.
And the single player campaign could be epic!
New faction British??
9 Feb 2015, 22:30 PM
#181
Posts: 1162
9 Feb 2015, 22:38 PM
#182
Posts: 2561
Japan wouldnt fit into coh2, no.I'm sure you were probably one of the people saying soviets and US should never fight together, too. It's stupid to talk about coh3 becaus that's not going to happen for another 8 years even if it happens at all. And there are plenty of people who want to see a japanese faction before they die. If allies can have Soviets and US fighting together, Axis should be able to have Japan and Germans
But if coh3 were based around that theatre, you could have all the dense tight infantry fighting in jungles as mentioned.
They could attempt to bring more water into maps and have island based maps, amphibious craft, beach landings, island hoping.. How the Pacific was fought.
You could have naval abilities like gun battery bombardments.
The air battles could be taken to the next level, dog fighting, kamikazis etc.
They could even toy with hand to hand combat abilities like a Japanese sword charge?
So what if you dont have heavy tanks, thats what coh2 is about, this could be refreshing.
Obviously thats just ideas, but I do think its the theatre that offers the most unique gameplay and features, fits the timeline of coh1+2 and offers another opportunity for Relic to really push the boundaries, if they wanted to.
And the single player campaign could be epic!
9 Feb 2015, 22:48 PM
#183
Posts: 978
I'm sure you were probably one of the people saying soviets and US should never fight together, too. It's stupid to talk about coh3 becaus that's not going to happen for another 8 years even if it happens at all. And there are plenty of people who want to see a japanese faction before they die. If allies can have Soviets and US fighting together, Axis should be able to have Japan and Germans1) Because if there is a shit ridiculous aspect in the game, be consequent and make the shit even more ridiculous. I still cringe once I see USF + Soviets in a team.
Next step: Include Japanese, because there are USF + Sovs in teamgames.
Next step: Japanese heavy tanks - prototypes but included for balance.
Next step: Be consequent and give Germans their prototype: Maus dlc. Weren´t the Allies experimenting with Jetpacks? I don´t know, but why not include them.
I would even cringe more if in 2v2+ we could see Banzai charges next to StuGs and Kübelwagen.
2) Now if the Japanese were to be included: You play them and meet an IS-2... how are you going to defeat it with light vehicles and no Panzerschreck equivalent? Buff tankettes with 37mm guns to the power of Tigers?
9 Feb 2015, 22:51 PM
#184
Posts: 2053
And then it wouldnt be Japanese because it would have nothing to do with Japan and include none of their fighting elements.
Where is the "Japan" in said upcoming faction? New skins on already existing weapons and tanks?
Where is the "Japan" in said upcoming faction? New skins on already existing weapons and tanks?
9 Feb 2015, 22:55 PM
#185
Posts: 1162
Totally different kettle of fish, at least USA and Russia were fighting with the same millitary goal, Berlin. 2 fronts, one enemy.
The Pacific is the other side of the world!
And I do think that Japan does not fit the flavour of coh2 (all the heavies).
Its an opportunity, hyperthetically for fresh gameplay, that would bennefit more starting from scratch.
Anyways, 4 factions is plenty for one game, balance would be impossible with 6.
If they do release brits, which I doubt, ill eat my hat :-D
The Pacific is the other side of the world!
And I do think that Japan does not fit the flavour of coh2 (all the heavies).
Its an opportunity, hyperthetically for fresh gameplay, that would bennefit more starting from scratch.
Anyways, 4 factions is plenty for one game, balance would be impossible with 6.
If they do release brits, which I doubt, ill eat my hat :-D
9 Feb 2015, 23:01 PM
#186
Posts: 2561
1) Because if there is a shit ridiculous aspect in the game, be consequent and make the shit even more ridiculous. I still cringe once I see USF + Soviets in a team.
Next step: Include Japanese, because there are USF + Sovs in teamgames.
Next step: Japanese heavy tanks - prototypes but included for balance.
Next step: Be consequent and give Germans their prototype: Maus dlc. Weren´t the Allies experimenting with Jetpacks? I don´t know, but why not include them.
I would even cringe more if in 2v2+ we could see Banzai charges next to StuGs and Kübelwagen.
2) Now if the Japanese were to be included: You play them and meet an IS-2... how are you going to defeat it with light vehicles and no Panzerschreck equivalent? Buff tankettes with 37mm guns to the power of Tigers?
1. The slippery slope argument is always so stupid. It relies on people being suddenly becoming retarded. Maus and Japanese heavies were both ridiculously big and far too powerful to ever realistically put in this game even if experimental tanks were allowed which no one is actually asking for. At most people are asking for unused produced tanks.
The mixed theaters decision has already been decided, likely before the game even came out. Stopping now is stupid especially when relic has already stated that they want the entire WW2 experience.
2. Same way I do as allies, I would cripple it and destroy it with AT guns or flank it to take it out from behind. It's not like the Japanese would have to reinvent the wheel. If anything they have it easier since the allies don't have as many well armored tanks.
9 Feb 2015, 23:05 PM
#187
Posts: 2561
Totally different kettle of fish, at least USA and Russia were fighting with the same millitary goal, Berlin. 2 fronts, one enemy.
The Pacific is the other side of the world!
And I do think that Japan does not fit the flavour of coh2 (all the heavies).
Its an opportunity, hyperthetically for fresh gameplay, that would bennefit more starting from scratch.
Anyways, 4 factions is plenty for one game, balance would be impossible with 6.
If they do release brits, which I doubt, ill eat my hat :-D
6 factions? I always figured they would stop at 4. aka:
Soviets v Whermacht, Eastern Font
USF v OKW, Western Front
Commonwealth v Italy-German, Medditeranian Front
Mixed pacific allies(USM, Anzac, etc) v Japan, Pacific front
Basically one release per year
And you might have to eat that hat. Brits are extremely likely.
9 Feb 2015, 23:18 PM
#188
Posts: 1162
Id just be surprised to see extra factions in Coh2. Seems like Relics work woukd go through the roof. There is plenty for them to be getting on with with these 4 factions and their commanders.
9 Feb 2015, 23:52 PM
#189
Posts: 2561
Id just be surprised to see extra factions in Coh2. Seems like Relics work woukd go through the roof. There is plenty for them to be getting on with with these 4 factions and their commanders.The factions will be as balanced as they design them. As long as they keep in mind pacing, and make sure they have counters and can be countered by what the other factions have they will be fine. You know, all the things they forgot about when designing OKW.
10 Feb 2015, 01:24 AM
#190
Posts: 4928
I believe that Japan can be realized. Men of War proof. Always possible to implement experemental tanks.
The problem with that is Relic and prominent parts of the community are against fictionalisation, adding in units that didn't exist or never saw combat. And if you did start doing that, demand for things like the T-44 Medium Tank, IS-3 Heavy Tank, Super Pershing Heavy Tank, Maus Super-Heavy Tank, T28 Super Heavy Tank, T29 Heavy Tank, T-55 Medium Tank, M46 Patton Medium Tank, Die Glocke Flying Saucer, etc would rise as people want their own faction's super-rare tanks or unused prototypes to be featured.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
10 Feb 2015, 02:51 AM
#191
Posts: 431
Reading through this thread, I've seen way more people saying "no! Japanese can't be included because including Japanese prototype tanks would be stupid!" than anybody actually advocating for the inclusion of Japanese prototype tanks. I know I'm speaking for myself here, but I just want a heavy emphasis on infantry, light-medium vehicles, and combined arms with lots of traps and ambush tactics.
10 Feb 2015, 03:22 AM
#192
Posts: 253
OKW already a good share of prototype units that maybe saw combat twice, and fictionalized units that never existed.
IF we get a new German faction it would turn out like this:
-some recycled units from coh1
-some prototype units that almost never saw battle
-panthers (every German faction in coh history has one)
- A new mechanic
I think a Japanese faction is a opportunity to really introduce new gameplay and stratagey, Imagine a Axis faction that emphasizes early game infantry play instead of holding out for heavy tanks, like every German faction in the history of every WWII strategy game ever.
IF we get a new German faction it would turn out like this:
-some recycled units from coh1
-some prototype units that almost never saw battle
-panthers (every German faction in coh history has one)
- A new mechanic
I think a Japanese faction is a opportunity to really introduce new gameplay and stratagey, Imagine a Axis faction that emphasizes early game infantry play instead of holding out for heavy tanks, like every German faction in the history of every WWII strategy game ever.
10 Feb 2015, 04:02 AM
#193
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
I honestly do not understand why so many categorically against Japan.
Japan is not only the jungle and the US Marines
Japan fought against the Soviet Union in China.
- In the north of China is very cold and snowy.
- Large steppes
- Large cities
- mountain
- Kwantung Army (the most numerous and powerful group of ground forces of the Imperial Japanese armed forces during the Second World War)
Japanese tanks are better and more interesting Italian
Japan is not only the jungle and the US Marines
Japan fought against the Soviet Union in China.
- In the north of China is very cold and snowy.
- Large steppes
- Large cities
- mountain
- Kwantung Army (the most numerous and powerful group of ground forces of the Imperial Japanese armed forces during the Second World War)
Japanese tanks are better and more interesting Italian
10 Feb 2015, 07:37 AM
#194
8 Posts: 2470
and the map settings really mean piss all. you can already have USF fighting OKW in the deep eastern front... if you rationalize that as it being believable because it doesn't look odd then you just don't know architecture/terrain of the area.
10 Feb 2015, 09:08 AM
#195
Posts: 133
2) Now if the Japanese were to be included: You play them and meet an IS-2... how are you going to defeat it with light vehicles and no Panzerschreck equivalent? Buff tankettes with 37mm guns to the power of Tigers?
Camouflage, some kind of button ability and tons of grenades and mines.
http://mickmc.tripod.com/leavenworth-chapter3part3.pdf
And Japanese did have 75 mm guns
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_90_75_mm_Field_Gun
The balance is a lie.
The balance is a lie.
The balance is a lie.
The balance is a lie.
The balance is a lie.
The balance is a lie.
The balance is a lie.
10 Feb 2015, 09:21 AM
#196
Posts: 49
Well Americans have shitty tanks compare to the russians and germans, still they are competitive.
We need to look entire picture not one segment, what if Japan has core inf. that cost same as conscripts but perform much better then them.
Moreover if they get effective anti tank commanders abilities such as P-47 strafe, then I think they will be really good.
Moreover they where really effective in battle in WW2.
I think Japan tank will be very micro dependent with abilities to cripple enemy tanks, similar to the Puma or Stuart.
We need to look entire picture not one segment, what if Japan has core inf. that cost same as conscripts but perform much better then them.
Moreover if they get effective anti tank commanders abilities such as P-47 strafe, then I think they will be really good.
Moreover they where really effective in battle in WW2.
I think Japan tank will be very micro dependent with abilities to cripple enemy tanks, similar to the Puma or Stuart.
10 Feb 2015, 09:26 AM
#197
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Japan in Europe? Really? Go home dudes...
PS
We have Japan in game already. Kamikaze planes killing stuff.
PS
We have Japan in game already. Kamikaze planes killing stuff.
10 Feb 2015, 09:29 AM
#198
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Well Americans have shitty tanks compare to the russians and germans, still they are competitive.
We need to look entire picture not one segment, what if Japan has core inf. that cost same as conscripts but perform much better then them.
Moreover if they get effective anti tank commanders abilities such as P-47 strafe, then I think they will be really good.
Moreover they where really effective in battle in WW2.
I think Japan tank will be very micro dependent with abilities to cripple enemy tanks, similar to the Puma or Stuart.
Japanese tanks were shittiest ever, more shitty than shermans and every tank from WW2 you can imagine (except maybe from german satelites country's tanks). So it will be verry hard to fit japanese faction into a game were tanks are so important. More than this, Japan didn't have effective AT infantry. They were good at planes, ships, artilery. That's all. They would fit into a scenary that would involve alot of water. Like battles for islands and peninsulas.
And no, COH2 doesn't need more factions.
When COH3 will be issued, they can focus on Pacific war. That's were they fit best. But tbh, I would like COH3 to be focused on Afrika. Afrikakorps, italians, british and americans. That's a theater where 4 factions would go verry well both from balance and historycal point of view.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
10 Feb 2015, 09:30 AM
#199
Posts: 49
Japan in Europe? Really? Go home dudes...
PS
We have Japan in game already. Kamikaze planes killing stuff.
Americans and Soviet playing together in City 17 or Kholodni ferma come on. They will kill each other
10 Feb 2015, 09:32 AM
#200
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
So, we have:
tanks (thanks for the photo CasTroy)
guns
anti-aircraft guns (both heavy AT guns)
hand anti-tank weapons
elite infantry
Mortars, howitzers, floating APC etc.
Japan is a mix of the US and Germany.
If you say - Japanese tanks was very thin.
I say: - armor Pz 2 "Lynx" was also very thin, it is not destroyed by three shots ZIS-3.
tanks (thanks for the photo CasTroy)
guns
anti-aircraft guns (both heavy AT guns)
hand anti-tank weapons
elite infantry
Mortars, howitzers, floating APC etc.
Japan is a mix of the US and Germany.
If you say - Japanese tanks was very thin.
I say: - armor Pz 2 "Lynx" was also very thin, it is not destroyed by three shots ZIS-3.
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