Remove Shreck from Volks

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 00:30 AMNuclear Arbitor

even vanilla rifles have a lot of AI power compared to vet5 volks, baring nades. i hope no one is disputing that rifles are better AI than volks. the problem is that volks are very strong economically and AT wise and have amazing synergy with obers. and they do have that nade, which is a bit difficult to use (nades in general, not the volks nade specifically) but with it they can wipe a full health, vet 3 shock squad so it must be considered. the other important thing about the grenade is it keeps strong AI power on them, even with the the schreck.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 01:36 AMNuclear Arbitor

yes. and rifles are a lot stronger than volks. a mid game rifle blob has no trouble competing with a mid game volks blob, shcrecks or not. it's when you combine the durability of volks with schrecks to deny tanks and obers to deny infantry that rifles have problems. rifles just flat role volks early game, it's only with vet (and nades) that volks can do anything to rifles. of course, this is also greatly alleviated by spios and kubels.

edit: and now i'm involved in this thread that has way past run its course... arg... i avoided it for nearly 500 posts.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 02:01 AMThe Silver Sage

Sorry buddy but due to the incoming accuracy received bonuses of vet 5 Volks, they will beat vanilla rifles so don't say contrary to that. Vet 3 rifles vs. vet 5 volks is a different story.

-49% Incoming received accuracy means vanilla rifles/cons find it much harder to hit them at mid-long range given their starting accuracy. Also try getting in close to hit them with vanilla cons who actually have an incoming received accuracy of +9%.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 00:22 AMJaigen

This stuff, right here, is a problem. once again you have made statements but do not back it up with any numbers. you do know that rifles have nearly twice the dps at short range around 70% at mid range? and yet they only cost 5 mp more per man. so the vet of the usf is far more powerful because they are applied to a significantly cost effective unit. i would say rifles along with grens and fusiliers. are the cost effective infantry. volks and scripts are tied but scripts have more utility with molotovs oorhah and at nades.

So no you are wrong about volks and their vet 5. and i grantee you that a riflesquad at vet 3 will tear a vet 5 volks apart.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 02:33 AMJaigen

Yeah but i can safely assume that when the volks has vet 5 the rifle squad has vet 3 and has lmg's/bars

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 09:33 AMAustralian Magic

Just stop saying bullshit about how BARs are OP.
For 120 muni, for double bar, all you get is higher CQ dps, from ~30 to ~38 and long range from ~7,5 to ~10. How it is OP for 120 muni?
Double BAR is a huge waste of ammo.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 10:13 AMPorygon

I suggest you guys just stop theory crafting with those bullshit numbers, play the game and get better, get into top 50s and tell us again HOW OP is Volks.

At least in high level, vet 5 Volks vet can't really save themselves from getting one shot squad wiped in those stupid way, nor they can hold the line like elite infantry.

There is no more COH1 uberarmor vet 3 KCH, Terminators vet 3 Rifles, rambo vet 3 G43 PG anymore.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 00:30 AMNuclear Arbitor

even vanilla rifles have a lot of AI power compared to vet5 volks, baring nades. i hope no one is disputing that rifles are better AI than volks. the problem is that volks are very strong economically and AT wise and have amazing synergy with obers. and they do have that nade, which is a bit difficult to use (nades in general, not the volks nade specifically) but with it they can wipe a full health, vet 3 shock squad so it must be considered. the other important thing about the grenade is it keeps strong AI power on them, even with the the schreck.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 11:24 AMSpecialka

Well I was for a time top 50 USF in 2v2 and 4v4. Does that count enough for you?

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 09:33 AMAustralian Magic

Just stop saying bullshit about how BARs are OP.
For 120 muni, for double bar, all you get is higher CQ dps, from ~30 to ~38 and long range from ~7,5 to ~10. How it is OP for 120 muni?
Double BAR is a huge waste of ammo.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 11:24 AMSpecialka

Well I was for a time top 50 USF in 2v2 and 4v4. Does that count enough for you?

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 11:45 AMJaigen

I never said bars are op but they do help. Also i doubt your dps numbers are correct as a single bar does 12 dps compared to a garands 6. Second part you have to know that bars fire in bursts. that means at point blank range you usually have a model drop if a bar fires at that range making it more useful then the static dps of the garand.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 03:03 AMWingZero

Riflemen
Unlocks AT Rifle grenade
-23% received accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
+30% accuracy -50% ability recharge +25% grenade range

Volksgrenadier
-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy -20% weapon cooldown
-10% received accuracy Healing when out of combat
+40% sight range +30% accuracy
-29% received accuracy

Total of -39% Received accuracy + healing out of combat and all these others buffs? Play some COH2 and stop defending every Axis unit bc you only win with one army.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 11:47 AMAustralian Magic

12 dps vs 8dps for 60 muni. Is it worth? I dont think so.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 11:46 AMJaigen

I hate to say it but no. 2vs2 players and beyond are usually scrubs compared to top 1vs1 players.

Jump back to quoted post21 Feb 2015, 10:13 AMPorygon

I suggest you guys just stop theory crafting with those bullshit numbers, play the game and get better, get into top 50s and tell us again HOW OP is Volks.

At least in high level, vet 5 Volks vet can't really save themselves from getting one shot squad wiped in those stupid way, nor they can hold the line like elite infantry.

There is no more COH1 uberarmor vet 3 KCH, Terminators vet 3 Rifles, rambo vet 3 G43 PG anymore.